I just realized that to play the 3v3 Europe ladder at my highest possible level, I will have to play LSAT logic games...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_School_Admission_Test#Analytical_reasoning

Is that a problem? YES! Who wants to take a logic game TEST for 30-60 minutes just to be able to PLAY one GAME at a high level? I am considering quitting the ladder. I don't have time for this! I just want to play a fucking GAME!

The top 1-3 teams on the 3v3 ladder are going to be playing these LSAT logic games. Are you playing the logic games? Below are the THREE STAGES of 3v3 Europe LOGIC GAMES:

STAGE 1 - When Picking:

Based on possible cyclical picking order, how should we order our 1-6 picks in relation to our 7-12 picks (and our 13-18 picks in relation to our 1-6 and 7-12 picks, etc.), to increase the likelihood that we get good spots and good board coverage?

I didn't do this in any of my games so far, and the pick lottery has hurt me in two games. I could have avoided being at a disadvantage if I spent an extra hour on Stage 1 of LOGIC GAMES.

STAGE 2 - Immediately After the Distribution of Picks:

Based on what I did and didn't get from my picks, as well as based on where visible enemies are located, what else can I deduce from pick order?

- 2.1: How much about MOVE ORDER can I figure out?
- 2.2: Which enemy got which starting spot? If ENEMY A is in LOCATION X with CYCLICAL ORDER of AabBCc, what do MY PICK ORDER, HISTORY, and CYCLICAL ORDER allow me to know about each ENEMY's other locations?
- 2.3: Are there any other assumptions I can make regarding likely starting spots, based on 2.2 above?

STAGE 3 - Throughout the Game:

As we play, we gradually complete the LOGIC GAME puzzle, by viewing and reviewing HISTORY to remember the finer details and fill in the missing pieces regarding MOVE ORDER, KNOWN ENEMY LOCATIONS, LIKELY ENEMY LOCATIONS, etc.

------------------------------------------------------------

Total Time Dedicated to Logic Games per 3v3 Europe Ladder Game:

Well, if you want to harness the power of the PICK LOTTERY, know MOVE ORDER so it works in your favor, and know as much as possible about the LOCATIONS of EACH ENEMY, you must play these logic games.

If you just want to play a GAME and have FUN, you will likely lose to players who are spending 30 to 60 minutes per game on each of the above three stages. Yes, that is correct. The top players will spend 30 to 60 minutes per game per stage on logic games. That's 1.5 to 3 hours per game, just thinking about how CYCLICAL MOVE ORDER influences the structure of the game...

I can play 0% WR without this much thought. Yes, there is analytical reasoning involved. But by no means do I need to analyze so much just to play at a high level.

The three estates of Europe 3v3 will coalesce as follows:

First Estate: These players are the clergy. They dedicate their lives to the Church of WarZone. They will be top players investing their time to play all necessary logic games to glean as much intel as possible from HISTORY.

Second Estate: These players are the nobles. They are holy, as lords in feudal WL society must be, but they are busy with worldly matters and are not nearly as dedicated to the Church of WarZone. This estate is comprised of top players who will not put in the same time and energy.

Third Estate: Everyone else. If you aren't a lay or ecclesiastical prince, then you just don't matter when it comes to the 3v3 Ladder. The Third Estate will never beat a team from the upper estates.

Edited 9/29/2015 14:18:37

How can this be good for WL? How will this promote coin games? And why should the 3v3 ladder promote coin games? Coin games will never catch on for 3v3 games. So why force settings on us?

Edited 9/30/2015 11:28:11

Top players play 3v3 Europe templates with RANDOM MOVE ORDER. CYCLICAL MOVE ORDER is not suitable for competitive 3v3 games

wrong, everyone is playing with cycle moves.

i think 1,5hr to 3hr is overstimate thing.
we waited for so long this ladder, just play and have fun.

Well, that is great news since I took the LSAT on a whim years ago and scored in the 96th percentile.

I do agree that cycle moves on 3v3 is a pain in the butt. I could do without that.

Edited 9/29/2015 16:12:43

Logic games are the most interesting part about the LSAT. But 3v3 Europe shouldn't be the LSAT!

I spent the summer of 2002 studying for the LSAT. I later decided I didn't want to go to law school, so I never took the actual exam.

The cycling itself isn't too bad. It's how the cycling allows players to know more about picks that is the pain in the ass. And if the goal of each player is (should be) to know as much about the opponent as the game allows, cycling forces us to play the logic games to know more.

"If one of the enemies got my 3rd pick and I can see two enemies next to my x pick and my y pick, which enemy got my 3rd pick, based on my pick order and the move orders I know?" Simple shit to figure out. But it takes time. And the game forces us to do this with every bit of intel we collect. So, if you really want to play at a top level, you have no choice but to deduce as much as you can from the information available. If you don't, you are at a disadvantage. And that is the problem.

With 0% WR and random orders, you don't have to calculate all the 3v2s the enemy could make to grab a bonus or play the logic games. There is less urgency to collect and deduce intel turns 1-4. It is more relaxing, more strategic (make a 3v2 vs a 4v2 is a risk management question, which is strategic), more fun.

Edited 9/29/2015 17:23:23

Right, it is a real pain in the butt for someone using alts too, since you have nobody else to do that tedious work for you.

Yeah, I got my bachelors in 2002, worked for a few years and thought about law school. I took the LSAT (I did a practice one, but that is about it for prepping), and did real well. Had a couple scholarship offers too. But I decided to stick with my current career (and expand into programming) rather than go back to school.

nobody force you to play with alts, if you don't want to do all calculation, join with someone and get help ;)

Will you be my accountant?

no :P

Edited 9/29/2015 18:20:34

Good thing I have 2 reliable people to talk about cyclic order with instead of what beers they like.

may i suggest you start your threads with a link to the uservoice thread for voting on what you are actually requesting to fix your problem? and only after that insert the wall of text explaining why it pissed on your soup.

you might have all the reason in the world and have gross majority of warlight community agree with you, but yet another thread on the forum isn't going to fix it, it will probably not even get read by Fizzer or Mercer. use uservoice. it sends out automatic email when a new request is posted and he claims to actually go through them now and again.

Edited 9/29/2015 21:54:04

And this is where the "Uservoice or not to" Thread came from :)

Posted:

http://warlight.uservoice.com/forums/77051-warlight-features/suggestions/9981072-3v3-ladder-change-to-random-move-order

BTW, Fizzer should mark these completed/delete them so those votes can go back to people:
http://warlight.uservoice.com/forums/77051-warlight-features/suggestions/4259904-3v3-europe-ladder

http://warlight.uservoice.com/forums/77051-warlight-features/suggestions/2327015-3-v-3-europe-no-cards-ladder

Edited 9/29/2015 22:50:20

pms, if you make a uservoice about your desires, maybe change will happen in a few years.

In the meantime, here is my uservoice for you:

http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20461504,00.html

Edited 9/30/2015 04:37:28