Afraid it doesn't solve the core problem, players not checking/understanding settings.

lol more dumbasses too lazy to check settings.

I keep seeing this logic show up in this thread. Under said logic, any games made with uneven teams or with AIs should not be considered by Warlight to be practice games.
Therefore it only makes sense to me that games with custom scenarios should be flagged as practice.

Afraid it doesn't solve the core problem, players not checking/understanding settings.

I don't know when you all started playing, but ther has and always will be a way to rig the game. Even if you put a flag on custom scenario. In fact it was done even before levels/points were added. Here are a few easy way to rig a game.

1. MA with players that are to low level to create a game on it.
2. Negative Sanc.
3. Overridden Bonuses
4. NLC + speedpick the only bonus (arguably this is a "skill" game, since fastest/best picker wins)
5. Gift negative bonus to opponent first turn + no cards gaine or allowed to be unused
6. Odd boot times, (1 min Direct, 8 hours Real Time)
7. Custom Scenario.
8. A map with very odd bonuses that are hard to spot (Strategic resources etc. surprisingly many maps have this)
9. Overridden kill rates.
10. Luck setting

During his stream Fizzer talked about rigged coin games (what is allowed to be pure skill), and the restriction opposed on them. Is this the kind of restriction you want for games in order to give you points?

Uneven teams should be practice games, but i don't necessarily think this should be applied to games with AI's. (2 human v. 1 human + 1 AI is uneven team is uneven in this defenition)

Edited 9/30/2015 00:30:00

Afraid it doesn't solve the core problem, players not checking/understanding settings.

Yes I know. In fact no single fix is going to solve all problems. But what do you think about this fix? Is it a good solution to prevent any rigged games which exploit custom scenarios?

1. MA with players that are to low level to create a game on it.
2. Negative Sanc.
3. Overridden Bonuses
4. NLC + speedpick the only bonus (arguably this is a "skill" game, since fastest/best picker wins)
5. Gift negative bonus to opponent first turn + no cards gaine or allowed to be unused
6. Odd boot times, (1 min Direct, 8 hours Real Time)
7. Custom Scenario.
8. A map with very odd bonuses that are hard to spot (Strategic resources etc. surprisingly many maps have this)
9. Overridden kill rates.
10. Luck setting

I fail to see why most of them can be classified as rigged games. Let's define what a rigged game is for the purpose of this discussion. A game is rigged when it gives someone (usually the host) an inherent advantage over others by design.

So how multi-attack, negative sanction, speed picks, gift negative bonus, overridden kill rates, luck setting alone are rigged?

As to 6, you can't set 1 min in a multi-day game. You can't set 8 hours in real time game. The system will show the shortest boot time first. People will see the boot time as 1 min, not 8 hours, even if it is accepted.

During his stream Fizzer talked about rigged coin games (what is allowed to be pure skill), and the restriction opposed on them. Is this the kind of restriction you want for games in order to give you points?

Yes sort of. But coin games must be pure skill for legal reasons. A ranked game can involve luck.

If you want to earn points, the game must be fair to everyone who joined. In other words, no one can have any inherent advantage over others in the game by design.

Uneven teams should be practice games, but i don't necessarily think this should be applied to games with AI's. (2 human v. 1 human + 1 AI is uneven team is uneven in this defenition)

Yep we may fine-tune the rule, so it can be ranked if both/all sides of teams have the same number of AIs (e.g. 1 human + 1 AI vs 1 human + 1 AI). But you need to consider how many points are awarded when AI is involved.

Edited 9/30/2015 04:12:56

oh look another one
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9546482
The guy is just going to keep making accounts until one of them gets through
Really the only reason to do this is you want to get to a high level quickly and ALSO want good stats

Seriously people?

Edited 9/30/2015 04:18:05

crazypotato

supports Bernie Sanders....and rigs games to win.

This is a lol.

They shouldn't be practice

Edited 9/30/2015 07:09:26

I don't give a single fork if one gets to level 1000 in one game. Doesn't make him a better player. So what? Envy those perfect stats? Pfff.

There are so good, fair and fun to play custom scenarios. Would be a shame if those were always only practice.

There are so good, fair and fun to play custom scenarios. Would be a shame if those were always only practice.

You need to show us some links, so we can discuss further.

You may have missed another point - even if the creator does not intend to cheat, it is likely the custom scenario is not well designed so not everyone has an equal chance of winning. Some spots are potentially better than others.

Not only custom scenarios which give someone a guaranteed win are unfair. There are many more. It is very often using custom scenarios will make the game unbalanced, and some player in some spot is at a (dis)advantage.

If someone come up to say I made a game with 3 humans vs 1 human, but it is really good and fun to play, since I tried to match 3 weak players against one strong player. The game is "balanced and fair" IMO so all games with uneven teams should be ranked in future. What do you think?

I know crazy potato, and he doesn't strike me as the kind of person to rig a game...
is it possible that he got hacked, or something like an impostor?

Edited 10/2/2015 04:00:13

@inquistor,

The overall discussion can be about what should and should not award points. But, in my humble opinion, the Purpose of points is to reward activity- all kinds of activity. Therefore too many restriction hurts WL, for instance diplo and rp players, who play with none official rules may not get points for their activity. Although no one wants rigged games, I believe that it is more important to reward as many as possible of the games on WL, and therefore I am principle against restrictions for what can give points.

This so called Powerful North Korean Leader Kim Jong Un is an impostor! I have nothing to do with the games that person is making. Its not me. I wash my hands clean of this.

My frain: Why are we complaining? We did not "work hard" for these points, we played video games. This bloke wants the features awarded to higher levels quicker, so he hosted these lotteries. Folk fell prey to it, but do you really determine whether you win or not at this game, assuming you didn't even look at the settings? Obviously someone wins and someone loses, you can insure your loss by not attacking, but that's the only certainty you're getting. In my opinion, it's mostly your fault if you join this game, and the maker is not an arse - you lose 1 big FFA, and you should suspect something fishy anyway, on this map.

I doubt folk will be driven away by one game. And so what if they are? They won't be driven away by the many other repulsive things that Fizzer is not going to change or are poorly fixed (Poon Squad, vulgarity, many forumposters)? And should we establish quality control over games? Absolutely not, perhaps a fix would be to pop up highlighted settings or to have a custom pop up with the settings you want to know the values of (of course this will not be done).

Actually, I realised I kind of answered my own frain on the second paragraph, sorry. It's not a big problem though, we're just jealous that we are Warlight veterans who achieved our high levels through experience, many hours wasted and being losers, while this bloke just leveled up his alt very quickly, with the experience, many hours wasted and being losers as the main account.

TLDR: Overeaction.

I know crazy potato, and he doesn't strike me as the kind of person to rig a game...
is it possible that he got hacked?

I'm afraid not. How is a hacker so nice to help him to earn points?

A nice guy wants to cheat sometimes. ;-)

And actually it is easy to get off. Some cheater have been doing for more than 5 times at least (it is certain I'm not going to discover all of them).

The overall discussion can be about what should and should not award points. But, in my humble opinion, the Purpose of points is to reward activity- all kinds of activity. Therefore too many restriction hurts WL, for instance diplo and rp players, who play with none official rules may not get points for their activity. Although no one wants rigged games, I believe that it is more important to reward as many as possible of the games on WL, and therefore I am principle against restrictions for what can give points.

While I agree it might be a good idea to reward points based on activity too, but the whole leveling/pointing system never do that.

What we have is a "reward-the-fittest" system. Think about a 40-player FFA game. Who can get points at the end of the game? The winner only. Even if you stay the second longest, you get ZERO! NIL! NOTHING! The world is so cruel. >_< Only the fittest get awards. :"-(

Nearly all diplo and rp games are FFA. Only one gets all the points. All other get zero.

And quite often they will vote to end a game. Then it is even worse - no one gets any point at all.

I also see quite many are set as practice voluntarily by the host.

So if it is the reason not to implement the fix and keep letting rigged games floating around every day, it is a very bad one.

And I don't think this change, if implemented, really matters them much. But I would like to hear more about diplo/rp players' opinions on this issue.
What makes you join a diplo/rp game?
Are points important factors?
Will you not join if the host set it as practice?

To be honest, I don't know why anyone even joins those lottery games. There is even button "Hide all lottery games" next to each one on Dashboard, like if someone MIGHT not like them there (guess why).

@Onoma94 Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that only works if the person follows the rules and puts "Lottery" in the title.

I thought it works for certain maps. My bad then.

This so called Powerful North Korean Leader Kim Jong Un is an impostor! I have nothing to do with the games that person is making. Its not me. I wash my hands clean of this.

Your hands are NEVER clean!!
The impostor was executed by you with an anti-aircraft gun from close range.

inquisitor, you haven't answered what I've said.

Sorry for late reply.

This bloke wants the features awarded to higher levels quicker, so he hosted these lotteries.

They are not lotteries at all. They are fake cheating games which only the host can win. Everyone has a chance to win in (true) lottery games.

Folk fell prey to it, but do you really determine whether you win or not at this game, assuming you didn't even look at the settings?

Well some people join many games every day, but honestly will you always check all settings carefully each time before you join a game? If the host says it is a lottery or strategic game (using the standard template), people generally trust the host. People do not expect they are so ill-minded to set up fake ones.

I don't think it is a good phenomenon when people have to worry whether their next game is rigged, and they need to check each setting carefully as if they are signing a big contract. After all people come here to play and have fun, not doing tedious work.

In my opinion, it's mostly your fault if you join this game, and the maker is not an arse - you lose 1 big FFA, and you should suspect something fishy anyway, on this map.

While you can blame the players for being careless, but I fail to see why the host is not to blame. They set up a fake game which claimed to be a lottery. They lie. They cheat to win.

I doubt folk will be driven away by one game.

You know, there are over millions of games (competitors) on the Internet. You don't have time to try all of them. First impression matters. You may decide whether you keep playing or quit based on that.

I almost quit the first time I tried this game (for some other reasons though). I'm glad I didn't.

we're just jealous that we are Warlight veterans who achieved our high levels through experience, many hours wasted and being losers, while this bloke just leveled up his alt very quickly, with the experience, many hours wasted and being losers as the main account.

Cheaters are those who have no skills and couldn't afford losing, so they have to cheat to win.
Some cheater will set up 3 accounts to join a 6-player FFA game to cheat wins. Yes they win, but they are spoiling the fun of others.
Do you like to play with cheaters? I don't.
Are you jealous of cheaters? I don't.
Are you jealous of a conman when they get rich quick by conning people out of millions? I don't. Rather I despise them. I want to get rich, but I will earn money in an honest and legitimate way.
Justice and fairness means a lot to me. Cheaters don't.