I've put up my own, this one will be give template builders the time they deserve:

https://www.warlight.net/Forum/122162-1v1-concept-template-competition

Please feel free to resubmit templates from here, so long as they aren't those boring ones that won, of course...

I did not say the winning templates were not good. But if you are not going to play them, the whole idea is a waste. And how can %100 luck be more strategic than 0 base income local deployment where you have to be VERY strategic with your picks

I didn't say they weren't good, I said they were boring.

ChrisCMU, I haven't tried your template, but from your post's description it sounds really cool (and I did watch one of the sample games). My Pure Luck template was never really intended to be 'the most strategic', just 'strategic' in a way that most people would not expect is possible. Your template surely deserved more consideration and surely a higher score than mine, but I just don't want people to be left with the impression that my template was not strategic at all.

Edited 12/1/2015 05:12:17

Please feel free to resubmit templates from here, so long as they aren't those boring ones that won, of course...

I didn't say they weren't good, I said they were boring.

I feel like you're doing the same thing, you accused the commentators of. How have you classified the winning templates as boring? In my opinion, you need to at least see/play 4-5 games on a template to truly understand it.

I think a lot of people only know one strategy, and are afraid sometimes to leave their comfort zone. Especially those who have only played a certain way for so long.

I couldn't agree more Master of the Dead...

Fleece i think i'm confident enough to say i know how a template works after 1-2 games. Maybe i don't even need a game to get the hang of it. So saying people are afraid to get out of their comfort zone might be correct. But completely not the case for me when i commentated yesterday. I wish you good luck by making it better on your contest. Already curious if you will have a stream and if so, how you're going to solve the time problem if you play every template.

Also:
Greece LLFD by benjamin

MoD 8/10
szeweningen 7/10
Sephiroth 7.5/10
Gnuffone 9/10

EarthSea 1v1
Sephiroth 8/10
Gnuffone 9/10
szeweningen 7/10
MoD 9/10

I couldn't watch the stream, so I can't tell if this was already addressed, but I'm curious as to why Greece was chosen over EarthSea. Or someone just really, really sucks at math.

Comments on today's stream:

- Gnuffone was very poor with his justifications on why he rated templates the way he did. It all just seemed random with him having very rigid ideas on what qualifies as strategic. He even rated a template without seeing how many picks it had! It really does not get worse, as far as Strategic Warlight is concerned.

- I felt MoD, Sephiroth and Sze had much better reasoning and I enjoyed some of the commentary.

- Instead of creating a game amongst yourselves to analyse the settings, it would have made much more sense to review a sample game linked with each template. That would have given a better understanding of the game mechanics at play.

- I understand there were a high number of templates submitted and there were time constraints. I would suggest pre-filtering templates before the stream to save some time. Or you could do multiple streams and cover all templates with game analysis.

- I'm sure the first WGL wasn't as perfect as the ones we have today. I'm really happy you did something like this. I hope you continue to do this on a regular basis and I'm sure it'll only get better.

AWESOMEGUY, the ratings are just that, ratings. I don't know why they weren't factored into deciding the top templates as that makes sense, but the ratings were for a small part ignored in making the final decisions.

MoD that's easy, I just won't have Gnuff commentating ;)

Also MoD, I hope you don't think I'm lumping you in with most players, I've played against you, so I know you have a good brain and a good eye for this game, and on the whole I respect you as a player. I hope that comes across between all the garbled ranting...

Edited 12/1/2015 06:15:45

I wish you good luck by making it better on your contest. Already curious if you will have a stream and if so, how you're going to solve the time problem if you play every template.

A really easy way to do this is to play the games ahead of time and just use the stream as commentating, showing the previously played games, and perhaps highlighting turns which demonstrate strengths and weaknesses of the template. All it takes is some prep work, rather than trying to ad lib and do everything on the live stream.

Yeah, that's what sze should have done, but it's clear from the stream that he hadn't even read this thread before the stream... :/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5axNSPz6rT0&list=PL220ON1RGnhKoI1DAr9b9D0LQfEUbj-GP&index=1

The stream is uploaded to youtube if any of you want to rewatch it. It should also be available in past broadcasts on twitch for the next 2 weeks.

Yeah i guess you are right on that. Unlike a wgl yesterdays stream would heve been better with more preparation.

I still think sze gave you all more than 4 hour of his time and we were able to give improvement suggestions on most templates, if not all. The stream has improvement potential but it's not like only 3 templates were good or have been honored

#motd, stop to accuse me for didn't saw the number of picks, i didn't know till today, WL display lesss territory if there are 4 player instead of 2.
When i saw it was 6 territory and not 4, i said that would completely change my opinion, as i could have coverred well the Whole map and get balanced.

I rated templated based on the fact if i would have joined that game if it was in open game, which make sense imho. if i given a 6, i would have barely joined it, more than 6 i wasvery interested to join it. As i play only strategic games (no diplo or RP r whatever), make sense, no?

@awesomeguy, szew picked and winner, and than he let us (me sephi mod) pick between greece or Eartsea. I personally give out the same rating, but in the point to pick one, i think greece was slightly better. Mod and sephi rated Earthsea higher, but in the point to pick between those 2, they decided greece.

Also, i truly think, like mod said, i dont' even need to play a game for get if a template is good or not.

And i am very surprised nobody used some maps like LOTR, phobia (of chaos), baltic sea, asia (of gui), volcano Island etc. that are supergood for a 1v1 template, but there is not yet any good tempalte on it!

Also, i truly think, like mod said, i dont' even need to play a game for get if a template is good or not

I am afraid that u aren't that smart. cleary you havent understand mine, and a few others I suppose. And as some people above have already said - your comments were generally well below the average... sorry gnuffone but you should not take part in such contest anymore with your attitude and lack of understanding...

@ MOd - thx for your comments, I appreciate that you were the only one who tried to addres such accusations

@Shweningen - since you were the organizer I am afraid that it was mainly your fault. It is very starange why you havent analysed those templates upfront (not to talk that in fact you should have played all of tham at least once). I was afraid that it may end like that therefore on friday I have invited you to 1v1 game in my template - you were absent during weekend but on moday morning you did not agree to join it and only asked whather I have post its description on forum thread. If you dont have time to chec those templates and to read thier desriptions please dont organize such contest "anymore" because you are insulting other people. Also I'd suggest to chage the name of this contest to "My favourite template" which would be more accurate according to what was presented. Fianly, since you were the main organizer, I'd expect you to addres those issues (but plewse dont write that you dint have time to analyse all templates properly, if you dont have time dont do it or at least dont judge sb's work)



Geberally i think this whole contest should be held once more but in much changed formula with four stages.


1) Stage 1: -contest organiser should check all templates and discrad ones which are obviouselly "unplayable", "copied" etc. Also I'd suggest the rule "one person - one template".

2) Stage 2: 2 judges (like Shwieningen + MOD) should play all that templates. I suggest they play quick real time games. Thing is they should play at least 2 games between themselves + one of them should play one game with author of particular template. I know it will take some time but if you want to make it properly it is must-have. After that you shouls create a list of all templates where every tamplate included would contain: 1)template link 2)link to the example game proposed by author, 3)link to one of the games played by judges. 4) medium/short description from author (max 400 words) 5) short opinions from both judges . It is important that this opinions should not contain numerical evaluations like 7/10. Only words, although such phrases like "my favourite" or "has some potential" are encouraged. After the list is done, you should also present it to authers for few days before public release so taht they could discuss/respond to some of your opinions

3) stage 3: after the list is done you stat it public in forum and ask top 50 seasonal ladder players from last season to vote on it: every player should point 3 templates. I suggest that the results of this poll should be revealed only after the voting is over, so that they dont bias the players preferences. This shopuld take 3-4 days max.

4) stage 4: after the voting is over you pick first few (3 or 4? max 5?) templates (with highest number of votes) and only then you organise the streaming similar to one we have seen yesterday - but this time you only have few tempaltes which you know well and which you can analyse detaily. At this stage the number of juries can be increased to 4. Also at this stage the tamplates should be valued with numbers ( i suggest categories:"strategy/luck dependance"//"new features"//overall gameplay + additionall points from the number of votes gathered in stage 2 (like 1st template from stag 2 gets +6 poins and 2nd +4))

Edited 12/1/2015 09:54:32

Also, i truly think, like mod said, i dont' even need to play a game for get if a template is good or not.

You need to actually understand the template though, if you don't play it. You clearly did not understand my template for example, thinking it was intended as a joke. Simply reading the template description would have been enough to understand that it isn't. You clearly did not bother to take even a small amount of time to try to understand templates that did not fit your preconceived notions of what a strategic template should be.

Again, I honestly don't care about my template's position in this or any contest. I'm merely replying because you are so sure you are right in your assessment, when you are so clearly wrong. It's that narrow-mindedness that prompted this response. That kind of thinking is one of my pet peeves, and I enjoy calling it out when I see an opportunity.

@Kain

I'm not sure what exactly is that you want from me. First of all I rated your template quite high in comparison to others and I feel like I understood it. We did discuss it twice upon your request and I have explained on stream what I think were the major advantages and disadvantages of the template. When it comes to organising the event I agree, it could have been done very differently and much better, if other people are motivated enough I hope they will also sponsor, host and stream an event like that. Nothing would make me more happy than those people with good ideas putting them to use.

@wct

Please tell me what exactly is that we did not understand about the template. I've explained to the viewers how 100% luck can be more/less managed by high stacks, I also explained why it has not been used before (because of order delay moves). OD cards do not help this issue, I've even suggested that possibly overriden attack kill rates can help with that.


In general I agree more/less that on most templates we do not need to play a game in order to understand the dynamics of the templatem that goes for most experienced players. The whole idea of the event was to promote strategic template making, nothing else. I was hoping new template makers could use both positive and negative feedback in order to make more strategic templates in the future. If you choose to be salty instead, I cannot do anything about it. If you genuinely feel hurt please talk about specifics, meaning "I feel like you did not appreciate the aspect X of my template or you misunderstood it". If I did misunderstand some of the templates I'm sorry for that, however one of the other points of having multiple commentators was constantly checking each other. Considering we were all in agreement on most templates I'd find it weird if all 4 of us missed a specific thing.