Ox, that's a simple opinion on your part though. MANY others want to be a part of a clan in which "they have the power." In which they get to decide things, and have a say in how the clan is run. Even if the clan has a Council deciding everything, the simplicity of being able to vote for who to put on that Council is a major plus to some people.
Now some people may have a train of thought like yours finding that idea stupid, but those are the people that shouldn't join clans like AOE.

Conservative, I would laugh because we hold one of the oldest clans on the site, which is definitely one of the 3 oldest roleplay clans on WarLight (UN).

Ox I will leave your opinions on clan government to yourself and that is all I can say. I know I can't convince you otherwise. As I said before, we will lead by example and hopefully history will vindicate us. All I can say is that if you want to have power in a clan, if you want a voice in a clan, if you want to go from a new guy on the block to a leader of a clan in a couple of months...you can only do that in AOE. Long live Athens.

I'd say the best WL government is where everyone has a chance to give their input. A few people who are the clan recruiters, they should have MR and also be trusted but the best system is, as I said, where everyone gets a voice.

Ox, that's a simple opinion on your part though.

No, it's not pure opinion. Notice how Wolves used to have this type of government but don't anymore? It's because it failed.

MANY others want to be a part of a clan in which "they have the power." In which they get to decide things, and have a say in how the clan is run.

That is true, but then the people at the top have to constantly rely on the entire community to vote on things, constantly share their opinion on things, and it's needless when you can run a clan successfully without this.

Even if the clan has a Council deciding everything, the simplicity of being able to vote for who to put on that Council is a major plus to some people.

"the simplicity", is a very strange term to use here. It's not simple. When you have clans that are getting larger, it becomes harder and harder to decide who gets in, because the majority required also gets larger and larger. This makes things stressful, because some people honestly don't care who lead them, as long as they have a competent leader. Also, with elections, what if the wrong guy gets in charge?

All I can say is that if you want to have power in a clan, if you want a voice in a clan, if you want to go from a new guy on the block to a leader of a clan in a couple of months...you can only do that in AOE.

That's not true. I joined CORP in May and become a Gunjikomon in July. Note, I technically became a Gunjikomon on the first day, because of Panda's willingness to make everyone a manager, but that didn't happen anymore for about a week after I became one, seeing as the clan got hijacked not longer after I arrived, and Gunjikomon status became a lot more rare thereafter.

I'd say the best WL government is where everyone has a chance to give their input. A few people who are the clan recruiters, they should have MR and also be trusted but the best system is, as I said, where everyone gets a voice.

People can get a voice without a slow, democratic system, that takes a long time for anything to happen, especially considering the size of some clans and the required majority it would take. For example, I sent out self-assessment sheets to the 36 strongest strategic players on CORP, to get their input on what templates they like, and where they most need improvement. Huge amounts of people responded, and we didn't need some crazy democratic election for the management to find out people's opinions on things.

Edited 11/29/2015 16:39:01

To each their own. May everyone find personal success.

I have a lot of respect for my old clan CORP, so I don't intend to publicly criticism the way you guys do business. I would hope you would give me the same courtesy.

Edited 11/29/2015 16:58:47

AOE is the first clan to be named AOE. It is the first clan to be led by JaiBharat. It might also the only clan to have an "Atheneian government" on warlight.

But is it the only democracy where "new people can rise up quickly"? I would not be so quick to say so. For all the talk about "leading the warlight community by example" and the only "democratic clan on warlight", AOE is actually no more democratic than the next ordinary Joe clan. For example in my clan there are no elections, constitutions, or government structure but if you asked any member, none of them would they they were feeling disenfranchised or oppressed. I dare say that is the case with virtually every clan on warlight.

To add to my point on AOE not being any more democratic than the next clan over: 1) Not everyone can run for election in AOE. Canidates for the senate are chosen by JaiBharat. 2) not everyone can vote in the election. JaiBharat chooses who can vote and who cannot. 3) The "head proctor" (fancy title for de-facto leader/president) is not chosen by popular election but is actually appointed by the previous head proctor. basically it's a hereditary position, after the conservative left AOE after a month he appointed JaiBharat as the next head proctor with no election whatsoever. 4) The senate itself has little authority. Many matters are not even brought before a senate vote.

So in conclusion unless AOE actually instills a real direct democracy where a leader elected though popular election is given manager rights, I will continue to find their constant boosts humorously ironic.

The original form of government when I lead was there was a head proctor and a Senate. The Senate was elected by the majority but the head proctor position never was elected in order to keep stability while the Senate at the same time allowed the people to have a say. The head proctor merely enacted what the Senate decided

Don't you love how Colonel mysteriously disappeared once the shit began to fly against him lmao. I don't blame him though. Occasionally when I post something on the clan forums that is extremely unpopular I think to myself " well, that's one thread I will never return too " lol

Homeless some things you have said are true and some are not my question is how do you know all this? Alt? Jai doesn't have the constitutional authority to say who can vote and who can't. He does pick a few of the most active members to run but to me theirs no other way to do it.

did not address my points :P

Edited 11/29/2015 20:51:54

Homeless if you want to dictate and change how our clan is run, join it, rise up the ranks, get elected to the senate, propose a bill, and get a majority to vote for it. Till then I would appreciate staying out of our clan's business.

The senate has major powers: it proposes and passes all bills on clan matters. To say our Senate has little power is a falsity. And its true I pick who runs in the senate elections, but its completely fair and based off the most active members. I propose the list to the Senate, and they can reject members and add their own if they can make an argument for one or another.

Nonetheless I don't like to engage in pointless debates with people who's mind I cannot change. We may not be a 100% democratic...but we're pretty damn close compared to the rest of WL.

Will you guys shut it? Guess what? The game stays up with people buying clans!

You should be happy another clan is born, I am.

And I'm betting Fizzer is also.

What's the point of shutting up? Your arrogant post here is not needed. Fizzer said himself quite a while ago that clans don't help much - they do, but not much. And frankly, I'm not sure that Fizzer is that poor anymore, from what the gambling and the advertisements, and the investor(s).

The player commented on a thread with a completely different topic saying that AOE is a diplo clan with a "government and senate" which members can join and be a part of... basically the exact same as the Wolves, Vitrix, the Falcons and a few others.

Basically the same as Athens. Use your bloody imagination, F4GYT.

Listen XVK your the arrogant one.

Am I? I write a short comment agreeing with the original post mostly, that this is just another TLW clone (kind of), and Houston says to shut up, since it gets Fizzer money. Killing for money probably gets Fizzer money as well, doesn't mean he should do it.

Ox I will leave your opinions on clan government to yourself and that is all I can say. I know I can't convince you otherwise. As I said before, we will lead by example and hopefully history will vindicate us. All I can say is that if you want to have power in a clan, if you want a voice in a clan, if you want to go from a new guy on the block to a leader of a clan in a couple of months...you can only do that in AOE. Long live Athens.

Trust me, the more "democracy" a clan has, the more drama it brings. Ever wondered how the falcons got hijacked? Or how the wolves had several (actually, many) drama issues? Attempts at being democratic.

All I can say is that if you want to have power in a clan, if you want a voice in a clan, if you want to go from a new guy on the block to a leader of a clan in a couple of months...you can only do that in AOE.

I did that on the wolves, and several others did too. It's not about having an open, "democratic" management (not government, clans are not countries), it's about how nice and active the player was. I was friendly to everyone there, I put up games frequently, I was online more than once a day, I kept Skype calls ongoing, result is here now. I am probably one of the latest joiners to the wolves' management.

Even if the clan has a Council deciding everything, the simplicity of being able to vote for who to put on that Council is a major plus to some people.

Simplicity? democracy is never simple. Along with the fact voting power is equal between someone who studies every possibility and someone who doesn't know what the hell he's doing, the complexity of a democratic system is the biggest problem in it.

Listen XVK your the arrogant one.

Am I? I write a short comment agreeing with the original post mostly, that this is just another TLW clone (kind of), and Houston says to shut up, since it gets Fizzer money. Killing for money probably gets Fizzer money as well, doesn't mean he should do it.

Will people please shut up?!?!?!? Use proper grammar too! The purpose of making Fizzer happy is so that the site is worth his time. Really though, you are beating a dead horse here. It is not getting anywhere.

LAST WORDS:

FUCK COLONEL.


FUCK XVK


Zeph, Congratulations on your success in the wolves but AOE is a different form of representation then the wolves so your success doesn't really apply. I have my own mixed feelings about the AOE System and I created it! But either way this thread was insulting and crude and I hope the majority of people here find it as disgraceful and disgusting as I do.

So I'm "outrageous" for suggesting that The Royal Falcons, The Lost Wolves, League of Nations, The Juggernauts Clan, United Nations, Vitrix Mortallis, T4R, After_Dark and all the rest of the so-called "rp clans" are enough for one website, and that AOE is just another parallel of the existing clans.
You also called another person on this thread a c-word and used completely unnecessarily obscene language just because Xapy opposes your viewpoint. I can imagine what a clan with you at the helm would look like, and your definition of democracy is obviously distorted. Freedom of expression of one's opinion on such basic matters is a must in a democratic society or group. By replying in the manner that you did, I can see that you have little respect for other people's viewpoints. Also, in the process you broke WarLight's rules, which proves you perceive rules as having little worth. God help you, sir.

I believe my opinion is founded upon a clear basis, and I reserve the right to express my criticism of any clan on this forum, as that is one of the functions for which this forum was created. I see no difference between Banana's criticism threads and this thread. Both serve the same purpose, which is to give readers an insight into a personal opinion. If you cannot understand the concept, then know that I did not force you to read this. I have much more experience running "rp clans" than you, and I will not accept being lectured to by a mere seedling, yet to bloom.

Oh yeah and one last thing, I was a wolf during the time of GodKung. Don't try to pretend that you're somehow superior because you're a wolf.

Good bye, cheerio and have a nice day.
Colonel Harthacanute Cardwell.

There's a billion strategy clans so there's no problem with there being 10 roleplay clans.