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Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/14/2015 03:46:40


Filthy Weeaboo Scum
Level 58
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Just now I finished up a game where even though it was a FFA game, a few players teamed up anyways. The Mighty Red army still crushed them, but you know isn't playing with teams in FFA really wack? I can understand maybe late game and one player has an overwhelming advantage, but if it's right off the bat and you're trying to find team mates... shouldn't you just play a team game?

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=10054070
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/14/2015 03:57:42

[wolf]japan77
Level 57
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It makes some sense to create allies if you spawn right next to someone to avoid the two of you constantly breaking each other's bonuses, and as such eliminating each other from competition. That being said alliances created when the game starts across the map would be problematic, and are more like team games.
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/14/2015 03:57:54


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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Couldn't agree more. Teaming up in a FFA is a dirty fight. Its everyone for themselves. Not everyone gang up on Jack.

If you want teams join a diplomacy game.

Edited 12/14/2015 03:58:12
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/14/2015 04:08:43


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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Isn't the point of FFA that there are no rules? Hence, if teaming up with other players gives you more chance to win, you should do it?

I never understand players who seem to want to add rules to a FFA like "No teaming" honesly if that's what you're after you should join Diplos...

Edited 12/14/2015 04:09:39
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/14/2015 04:14:59


TBest 
Level 59
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Teaming up in FFA's is the whole point. Else it is just a "lottery".
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/14/2015 04:19:31


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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No that's wrong in my view. It isn't luck that determines victory in FFA...its the fact you can play against multiple opponents on multiple fronts at the same time. Also I don't interpret the phrasing as a free for all as make strategic alliances to win. A free for all should be exactly what its name implies...every man for himself.
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/14/2015 04:22:45


TBest 
Level 59
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https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=10054273

This is a great example of a very good FFA. It is clearly every man for himself, yet as long as they both benefit from it they will cooperate. Note that there is no PM, and there is fog. Nor is there any written alliance. People will still team up.

Edited 12/14/2015 04:27:02
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/14/2015 04:32:24


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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^I found this game surprisingly interesting. Even given multiple opportunities Pink (South America) did not attack Yellow (Africa).

If you argue that natural team formation will occur without any communication...then in that sense it would be fair, but only since you cannot possibly punish or control or know if teams are being formed against you. This however is not the case in all games labeled FFA.
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/14/2015 04:42:54


TBest 
Level 59
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If you argue that natural team formation will occur without any communication...then in that sense it would be fair, but only since you cannot possibly punish or control or know if teams are being formed against you.

Yes, this is my point! Since you can't possibly fight everyone at a time you have to pick some 'friends'. Yet you can never trust them completely. An FFA with unofficial rules, is actually a RP/diplo game in my mind.
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/14/2015 05:09:53

wct
Level 56
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It's not teams so much as non-aggression pacts. I've done it in FFAs when you start right next to someone, and you *know* that if you squabble immediately, neither of you can possibly win.
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/14/2015 05:17:35


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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Exactly, if you just mindlessly attack all players on all fronts at all times, then you are literally not even applying your brain, even AIs don't do that, and you will almost always lose.

I play to win FFAs, and to do that you HAVE to know when it's a good time to attack, and when it's not. It's a very tricky skill that takes a lot of practise and knowledge of the game. Also a really good "battlefield sense" ie, how much income players all over the map have, where they are, who is allied, and many many other things, even through heavy fog!

This for me is what makes a FFA, it's more like a real life fight than anything else. There are literally no rules, except try and win. There is only 1 thing that truly bothers me in FFAs, and that's suiciders. Players who will attack you relentlesly until both you and him are dead. This to me sounds like exactly how you play... Honestly what's the point? You're just wasting both our times...
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/15/2015 03:12:56


psykkoman
Level 55
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As Fleece pointed out, it is essential to know when to attak and when not. The more players involved, the more necessary are alliances, if you want to have chance to win . Deal with it.
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/15/2015 03:32:02


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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Hmm...fleece definitely convinced me on the validity of teams. Although I don't quite understand how you exactly form a pact/alliance (even if its temporary) in heavy fog and without private messaging allowed.

Unless you mail the player externally...which seems a bit tedious haha.

Edited 12/15/2015 03:32:19
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/15/2015 03:37:33


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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Personally, I never message players, I don't like to, I think it disrupts the "feel" of a FFA, teams and alliances or whatever you want to call them have to stay fluid and dynamic, often I might tussle with an enemy on a border with a few troops each, we're not fighting, so much as bumping elbows, I think there's something primordial and animal about it, like when you see 2 dogs fighting and going at eachother, then suddenly stop like nothing happened cos it was just a play fight.

There's a lot of complexity to a FFA, in all thruth though, if 5 friends go into a 10 player FFA and say before hand by message "Lets team up and kill them lol" then to me that's not playing FFA, that's not really playing in the spirit of the game, you should just play a team game if that's the case. If it's dynamic, and a temporary truce as part of the game, that to me is fine, and neccessary :)

I'm actually in the process of writting up a guide to FFAs, would you be interested if I post it up here?
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/15/2015 03:58:40


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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Definitely. Would love to hear your thoughts on the issue. At the least it would give me a chance to brush up on strategy.
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/15/2015 04:05:44


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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Coolio, I'll finish typing it up, host it somewhere, probs Google Drive, and then post it here :)

I've never come across a good FFA guide before, so I think it would be nice to make one :)
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/15/2015 04:23:01


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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That's true. And the reason is probably the one you identified before - FFA is complex and requires a more fluid strategy. You can't go in with one plan in mind and think you'll succeed.
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/15/2015 04:29:46


psykkoman
Level 55
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Great idea Fleece! Really looking forward to it.
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/15/2015 04:40:53


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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Yeah, defo Jai! :)

And I look forward to releasing it psy ;D
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/15/2015 05:02:31


TBest 
Level 59
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If you want the guide revised before public, I would be happy to do so :)

Also, since I have no patience at all. How do you handle picks? They are obviously important, but it is hard to be more specific then "Don't pick bad, and pick away from everyone else."

Oh, and are you covering all FFA's or just (ex.) 6 FFA?



{Also there actually exist a few helpful FFA guides, that covers 2FFA.}

Edited 12/15/2015 05:04:34
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/15/2015 05:24:57


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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I couldn't find any, I would like to see them if you have links? Maybe I just missed them...

It'll cover picks, and all types. I know there are lots of different kinds, and even the level of fog makes a big impact on gameplay, but I'll cover it all :)
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/15/2015 05:40:36


TBest 
Level 59
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I couldn't find any, I would like to see them if you have links? Maybe I just missed them...
Did you just fall for this? "{Also there actually exist a few helpful FFA guides, that covers 2FFA.}"

If you are planning on covering "everything" your guide will be massive. (the MH guide is 18 pages.) I would recommend focusing on a few maps and do 4FFAs, 6FFAs, and "Big" FFA's. (And maybe include a section on PM and 'diplolike' FFA's) Each FFA type gets its own map in the guide. Remember the guide goal don't have to be to cover everything. It only has to show some examples of how something can be done.

Edited 12/15/2015 05:41:00
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/15/2015 06:13:41


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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"Remember the guide goal don't have to be to cover everything. It only has to show some examples of how something can be done."

Precisely ^_^

And did you fall for my bait of making you think I didn't understand what you meant by 2FFA? Amature...!
Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/15/2015 21:12:50


TBest 
Level 59
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Teams in FFA games, what do you think about them?: 12/15/2015 21:52:58


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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