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Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 01:35:17


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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The US currently does not have to fight any large wars, has a very good strategic position being bordered by two large oceans that can be defended by a navy and two weak allies that are not strong enough to take the US on. Making the US Army significantly smaller and having militias become more prominent would save billions of wasted dollars and limit the power of the military to wage war against its own government(military coup).
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 01:42:00


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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Couldn't agree more. Too bad the US government is infested and run by war-hawks who demand war everywhere and at any time and at any cost to the American people. We are a republic nor more. The US with the creation of a permanent military-industrial complex has fallen prey to the innate desire of a superpower to expand into an Empire, the exact fate the founders feared and resisted at all costs. America's historical values dictate a non-interventionist foreign policy, a small federal government, and a nation protected by its own people (small militias).

All empires collapse under their sheer weight...the only question is when will America's hegemonic expansionist dream die.
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 02:08:04


Lord Varys
Level 47
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This thread has so much ignorance in it, it's funny.

For one, the military supports militias.

Two, America is one of the LEAST LIKELY nations for a coup. Unless, of course, the democrats win the next 2-3 more elections, in which case it's quite possible.

Edited 1/6/2016 02:08:13
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 02:21:56


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Yes it's not likely, but the weaker chance is just a side boost. Secondly there's no reason for a large army. Provide a few reasons, please.
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 02:34:00


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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Two, America is one of the LEAST LIKELY nations for a coup.

What metrics are you using to declare this? To the degree to which one can quantitatively determine the likelihood for a coup is ridiculous...its called a coup for a reason (hint...usually no one expected it)!!
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 02:39:03

HomeLess
Level 55
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Compared to many other countries I would say America is pretty stable. Coup ain't happening anytime soon.
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 02:40:06


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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The military doesn't need to considering any time it needs money it can get it and wars are easy to come by. But as I said, it's a added bonus.

Edited 1/6/2016 02:42:27
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 02:48:48


Epicular
Level 46
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Sigh

I say we just shrink the military and screw the militias because why
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 03:00:54


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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The militias are cheap and provide a good mass of men ready for fighting while the military mobilizes.
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 03:09:48


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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If I may reference Federalist No. 29 written by Alexander Hamilton:

"THE power of regulating the militia, and of commanding its services in times of insurrection and invasion are natural incidents to the duties of superintending the common defense, and of watching over the internal peace of the Confederacy."

"By thus circumscribing the plan, it will be possible to have an excellent body of well-trained militia, ready to take the field whenever the defense of the State shall require it. This will not only lessen the call for military establishments, but if circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist."

Edited 1/6/2016 03:10:54
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 04:48:04


knyte 
Level 58
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> 2016
> not privately policing your own streets and shooting up any Muslims

what happened to you, Murica?
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 04:51:56


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Who said the militia would be police? They're just civilians who train once a month and have guns in some building , and only act when a war starts against the US. I'm honestly surprised I haven't gotten any flak from republicans, they should be especially mad that this would call for the military getting less funding.
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 05:37:07


knyte 
Level 58
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Yep, because you can totally constrain militias that way.

The reason that people tolerate the risk/loss of liberty that comes with states is because they protect us from the worse alternative- losing our liberty to our fellow citizens.
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 05:41:02


Genghis 
Level 52
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Yeah national guard is a very useful organization across America. Honestly it should have lots more members there are so many benefits.
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 05:47:37


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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What loss of liberties to the militias? They can't just go out and start taking parts of the country. Do you expect a bunch of militias to organize into a single army then attack the US? The army isn't non-existent just smaller. And the militias don't have a Air Force.

And the National Guard is apart of the army Genghis. Though sarcasm is half of your personality so I'll let it pass.
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 05:55:05


knyte 
Level 58
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^^ National Guard is pretty sweet, although it's basically an extension of the military come wartime

^ There's a very fine line between a militia and a terrorist organization; it doesn't matter if they're a single army if they attract ideologically motivated individuals (like the Oathkeepers do) who're likely to impose their own vision of which laws matter and which don't; the government is a lot easier to deal with (and I honestly don't buy into the paranoia about the military suddenly taking over- yes, they have a large amount of power, but there's a very functional system of checks and balances + power splits that keeps them in check anyway) through legal, well-established means. Bureaucracies are not the most common source of nightmares.
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 06:15:02


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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These militias would not be able to effectively combat the military traditionally and if some radicals wanted to fight a guerrilla war against the US, they could already.
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 06:17:09


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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And again, the reduced coup chance thing is just a minor side benefit.
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 06:46:06


knyte 
Level 58
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I'm not worried for the military. I'm worried for myself. The police isn't the group threatening to shoot me because I disagree with its views on abortion.
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 13:30:01


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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The police isn't the group threatening to shoot me because I disagree with its views on abortion.

That seemed random?! It seems your presupposing any militia would be made up of social conservatives?? You know you would have an equal right to join a militia Knyte as anyone else...its not like a militia would discriminate on ideological, racial, or ethnic lines. That's like saying I would fear getting shot up by a left-wing militia group because I disagree with its views on affirmative action. The militia was the main form of military protection in this country for more than 150 years (about)

Edited 1/6/2016 13:33:31
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 13:46:05


The Man Who'd Buy Spain
Level 29
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I think he was just using it as an example, Jai.
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 13:48:51

E Masterpierround
Level 56
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I think knyte's just pointing out that private individuals express their social ideologies more frequently than police (which is a good thing). It's also blatantly true that most anti-abortion people in the US are also pro-gun, and vice versa. Thus, your average citizen is more likely to threaten you on ideological grounds than the police, and an average gun enthusiast would be more likely to have a socially conservative ideology. A liberal would perhaps threaten you in other ways.
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 15:40:48


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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The Police are the one's I'd worried be about. They're the ones killing more than a thousand a year. And the militia members could already seek you out and try to kill you. Nothing has changed in their ability to.

Edited 1/6/2016 15:41:22
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 18:01:57


Eklipse {TJC}
Level 56
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And the militia members could already seek you out and try to kill you. Nothing has changed in their ability to.

This. A non-sanctioned militia is just as capable of organizing and arming itself as a sanctioned one would be. If they were going to drag Knyte out of his house and murder him for being pro-choice they easily could have done it by now. (I find that example to be a bit strange by the way. I've never heard of a militia going around town and asking people what their political views on abortion are)
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 18:33:53


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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I find that example to be a bit strange by the way. I've never heard of a militia going around town and asking people what their political views on abortion are

This point is too narrow. I've never heard of a militia going around town and asking people what their political views on culture war issues are. Period.

It's also blatantly true that most anti-abortion people in the US are also pro-gun

Conceptually and theoretically this may be true. And you may even be right...but I don't know how much actual hard-evidence research there is on this. I also don't find the line of argument used by statists to be all that surprising - we trust state institutions (e.g. police, US military, federal government) because they are inherently created and run by the state. This misses the entire point of US political development leading up to the formation of the US constitution: extreme (and I mean Oregon ranchers seizing Federal buildings extreme) distrust, wariness, and skepticism of the merits, accountability, and altruism of any state institution. We've become completely complacent...almost ingratiating servants...to state institutions. And that is why the philosophy of a militia is so vitally important to the foundation and preservation of our country.

Edited 1/6/2016 18:38:15
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 21:17:34


Genghis 
Level 52
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Most cases involving gun deaths are self; defense. Guns prevent more deaths than otherwise, with many gun owners having neutralized a situation with the threat of gunpowder but never actually shooting.
Criminals will always find a way to get the guns.

There's really not much else to say.
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 22:09:13


knyte 
Level 58
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TIL laws have no effect because people do illegal things anyway
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 22:57:13


Orange
Level 58
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Switzerland has a very good working militia system.
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/6/2016 23:36:10


Eklipse {TJC}
Level 56
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TIL laws have no effect because people do illegal things anyway

Please show us evidence how militias would suddenly become more dangerous if they were openly accepted by the government.

Also, I could be wrong, but I don't think militias are illegal in any state. I'm sure the FBI/CIA/NSA watch them like hawks, but there's nothing explicitly criminal about forming a militia as long as you don't break any laws.
Why militias are good for the US.: 1/7/2016 00:01:55


kynte
Level 51
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Private armies aren't legal but militias are. Oathkeepers are an example. Explicitly protected by the second amendment, but not enshrined as a part of the US defense policy in any meaningful way. Also defined a bit ambiguously (could arguably be referring to National Guard, although SCOTUS interpretation doesn't say so)
Posts 1 - 30 of 31   1  2  Next >>   

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