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Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/22/2016 22:07:56

General Amoora
Level 43
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What do you think of this:
https://www.warlight.net/SinglePlayer?PreviewMap=53655

I'm going to need testers...who's up for it?

Edited 2/27/2016 14:49:41
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/22/2016 22:10:59


[FCC] Aura Guardian
Level 59
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Looks more like a diplomacy map than a strat map, tbh.
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/22/2016 22:30:10

General Amoora
Level 43
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Yeah it does. I just gave it a random name at the start because 'middle east diplomacy' doesn't sound
too nice
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/23/2016 22:41:31

General Amoora
Level 43
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Yemen is now complete, tomorrow I will probably finish up Jordan, Israel, Syria, Lebanon and Palestine
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/23/2016 22:48:29


Onoma94
Level 59
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name it Middle East Nations 2016, if it's going to be map like European Nations and World Nations :p

Edited 1/23/2016 22:48:49
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/23/2016 22:58:49

iamtaller
Level 49
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I'd be willing to help test it.
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/23/2016 23:07:02


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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That map looks nice! Really nice, I'm happy to test it :)
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/24/2016 12:39:37

General Amoora
Level 43
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Syria and Oman should be finished later today and now the testers are:

-iamtaller
-fleecemaster
-Teamguns
-Master Aerko
-General PE
-OxTheArtist
-[WOLF]Zephyrum
-Tabby Juggernaut
-Chuck Norris
-Kretoma

Edited 1/30/2016 10:33:41
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/26/2016 20:27:48

General Amoora
Level 43
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The Map currently has probably now been half finished, I'd like to ask if anyone had any opinions about something that I can change to make the map better so that I can do it before making the bigger countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia.

Also something else I'd like to ask about the power of each nation, if there are any changes you might think would be suitable for this order please tell me.

1-Turkey
2-Egypt
3-Iran
4-Saudi Arabia
5-Iraq
6-Syria
7-Yemen
8-Oman
9-Jordan
10-Uae
11-Israel
12-Lebanon
13-Kuwait
14-Cyprus
15-Qatar
16-Palestine
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/26/2016 23:32:35


Wohoo
Level 56
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I'd like to ask if anyone had any opinions about something that I can change to make the map better so that I can do it before making the bigger countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia.
Opinions to make the map better:
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/27/2016 02:10:01


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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Perhaps you could add some bonuses in a corner to represent the countries controlled area (they would all have only informative purposes, and would give only a +1). Following this, you could add as "non-recognized states" ISIS, the Syrian and Iraki curdistan and a few bonuses for "other rebel groups" at syria. It would make the map closer to the 2016 reality.



Also, I believe for a more actualized power rank in 2016, you should see:

1-Saudi Arabia: First military budget of the region, support anti-assad rebels and invaded Yemen.
2-Turkey
3-Iran
4-Israel: Quality military and american support
5-Egypt: Lost power after the arab spring and the power change. It's military is easely challenged by radical islamists in the Sinai and can't solve the problem (remember the russian plane crash).
6-UAE: A lot of money, they support rebels in Syria against Assad and is currrently renewing it's air force.
7-Irak: Was a great force a few years ago, but is now in a tourmoil after ISIS began a major power.
8-Syria: Same
9-Oman
10-Jordan
11-Qatar
12-Lebanon: In a bad economic situation and in a political disorder
13-Kuwait
14-Cyprus
15-Yemen: Currently in a very bad civil war with Shias (Supported by Iran), the Sunni Gvt (supported by Saudi Arabia), Al-Qaeda and Isis fighting. Gvt army suffered a military debacle and the regime does only live because of saudis help.
16-Palestine: Occupied by israel, barrelly a real state

Obs 1: That's purely an actual power rank from the countries and might become a little innacurate soon, as Saudi Arabia's force is in a relative decay, as well as turkey's and as we will probably see a rising Iran in the region. Irak and Syria might also recover their strengh soon with Russia, Iran and the international community increasingly support the regimes.

Obs 2: If we add other pseudo-states, I'd put ISIS in 8th, the Kurdistan in 9th and the other syrian rebels (including moderates and radicals) in 11th. Syria, Oman and Jordan would lose 2 positions, Lebanon Kuwait, Qatar, Yemen and Palestine 3.


And dude, sign me as a tester! Even if you don't add any of this stuff if writed, it would still be an awesome map to play, good job man.
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/27/2016 03:35:42


[ΑΘΕ]Nitrios
Level 35
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Definitely up to test. Count me in.
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/27/2016 16:34:27

General Amoora
Level 43
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Team Guns, I will be adding bonuses like you said for rebel groups and non-recognised states, it's a great idea and thanks for suggesting it.
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/27/2016 16:44:10


GeneralPE
Level 56
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I can test

Also, I suggest making West Bank and Gaza Strip separate territories.

Edited 1/27/2016 16:47:14
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/27/2016 17:29:04


MrOobling
Level 30
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Don't forget to add Bahrain. It is extremely rich for how big it is.
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/29/2016 23:16:10

General Amoora
Level 43
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Syria Now complete, although the bonuses will probably be changed soon
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/29/2016 23:33:50


OxTheAutist 
Level 58
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This is my opinion for the strength of forces in the Middle East (I'm not doing only official countries because if you look at an official country map, that is misleading)

1. Iran - they have grown stronger under sanctions. Over time they have become more resilient. Alone they are undoubtedly the strongest state, but they do not have many allies.
2. Turkey - Benefits from NATO. Has strong allies, but isn't on Iran's standards as far as weaponry goes. They have barely any revolutionaries (just the odd Kurdish fortress), and their biggest problem is the migrant train.
3. Israel - God damn hard military. Not stronger, or as sizable as Iran's or Turkey's though. Practically no allies in the Middle East, but strong allies outside of it.
4. Saudi Arabia - Weaker than perceived. They have lots of allies because of oil, and they are politically stable and on good terms with the west, but they're not "strong".
5. Egypt - One of the strongest African countries, despite undergoing turmoil recently. They do kind of well, but they can't compete with the top 4 of the Middle East. ISIS and Al Qaeda have holdings in Sinai, and carelessness to rebels is bad.
6. ISIS - Yeah, they're here. They're stronger than loads of Middle Eastern countries as far as military goes. Financially they're not so well, but they receive lots of aid from rich Saudi individuals (although not the Saudi Government) and Qatar.
7. Qatar - they don't have a strong enough military to win a war by themselves, but they're very, very rich and are good at bribing people. They can get an army through money if they wanted to. Huge funders of ISIS, but they don't have the military themselves.
8. Oman - Only so high because of how stable they are. Meh, on terms of money and military, but stability is a check.
9. Jordan - Same as Oman, but weaker, and not as many allies as Oman.
10. UAE - similar to Qatar, but in reality they're not as rich as they look. Not interested in things militarily. Dubai is trying to get out of debt, and they just try to be the Muslim USA.
11. Al-Qaeda - not as strong as they once were, but they are still strong enough to have branches in Yemen and Syria, as well as maintaining fortresses in Sinai and Iraq. They're declining.
12. Kurdish Rebels - not too united, but they can make a strong force. They're succeeding in pushing ISIS back in Syria, and have stable ground in Iraq (although Iraq are kind of letting them exist because they have to deal with ISIS)
13. Houthi Revolutionaries (Yemen Rebels) - They're far stronger than Yemen itself, and can compare with the rest of the Middle East in terms of strength. They hold onto the Yemeni capital, and have holdings in Taizz. If they can push to Aden, they're definitely climbing.
14. Iraq - they are kind of just letting the Kurds exist. Infiltrations from ISIS on their territory, in their time of turmoil greatly weakens them.
15. Cyprus - have many friends, but they wouldn't win a war with any of the above countries.
16. Kuwait - they would have been obliterated if Saddam wasn't stopped. Sure, they're weak, but they're stable to a certain extent.
17. Bahrain - same as Kuwait. Iran do have plans to incorporate Bahrain into Iran, but for now, Bahrain is stable, and relatively wealthy.
18. Assad's Syria - Incredibly weak. They're barely surviving with what they have. Few allies, but they are holding onto the coastline and have fortresses in most big cities.
19. Free Syrian Army - even weaker. They are having a really hard time, and are barely united. Even western support won't bring them far.
20. Turkish Republic of N. Cyprus - they're not as strong as Cyprus itself, but they get frequent Turkish support. Could potentially dissolve in the future, but for now, they're stable.
21. Hezbollah - they have some allies, but they're not surviving well. Sure they can make progress in war-torn Syria and Lebanon, in turmoil, but they really wouldn't get far anywhere else.
22. Yemeni Government - In a state of utter confusion. They really can't get far, with constant attacks from ISIS, Al Qaeda, and other rebel groups. They barely have any big cities, and their military is weak AF.
23. Lebanese Government - Even weaker, even poorer than Yemeni Government. They just can't get their shit together
24. Gaza - In a terrible state right now, but at least they're better than the West Bank
25. West Bank - the weaker part of Palestine. Sure, they're slightly bigger, but Hamas has a grip on Gaza. West Bank is mostly subject to Israeli curfews, abuse, etc.
26. Mujahideen - A shadow of their former self. Used to unite all of the rebel groups under one flag. They've now fractured into several, several terrorist and insurgent groups. The core supporters of the Mujahideen are barely strong enough to hold some towns in Syria.
27. Jaysh Al-Jihad - another weak group located in Syria. 27 also represents all of the other weak groups in Syria. There are too many to mention, but there are so many factions with a few villages that call themself "independent" that it would be a waste to list them all. They are undoubtedly the bottom in the middle east. They wouldn't survive in anywhere but Syria.


And sure, I'll test.

Edited 1/29/2016 23:42:11
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/30/2016 01:27:16


Zephyrum 
Level 60
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If I may, I'd enjoy testing it :)
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/30/2016 01:32:28

(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 51
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@OTA I'm also interested. I propose a brand new form of diplo games: The goals of each entities are different and people should strive for their goals (converted to points) as opposed to elimination of all other players. Also the game should span multiple WL games and chat.

The map should be larger for this purpose.

Also for each conflict all irrelevant entities should be 999999 neutrals, such as Cyprus and Armenia in a typical ME conflict.

Edited 1/30/2016 01:35:01
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/30/2016 07:48:48


chuck norris
Level 58
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i wish to test it
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/30/2016 08:56:27


{Canidae} Kretoma
Level 57
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As always:

1. Full support on OxTheArtist.

2. I want to test, too.
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/30/2016 12:30:33

General Amoora
Level 43
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Thank you very much for your in depth analysis of how bonuses should be OxTheARTIST, I've decided that I will be following your way of bonuses in a way. I will have all the separate bonuses in a certain region add up so that it fits in with my scale, for example Egypt's singular bonuses would add up to make it the second most powerful, however to implement your idea, I will add super bonuses that will adhere to your scale so that one can play a representative and accurate diplo of the situation in the middle east right now like you've described, and they can also play different historical times and play a diplo game that would apply to potential power if all the countries were in a stable situation.
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/30/2016 16:09:25


OxTheAutist 
Level 58
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@Tabby, these games do exist, but very few people do them and they only usually happen in private games. I've seen OnlyThePie, xXOmegaXx, and CouchCoach do them (I did a variation of this once as well)
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/30/2016 17:01:33

(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 51
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@OTA This is the only form of diplo that makes sense now. I do not like diplos such as a world one with all nations trying to eliminate each other. In real life US Russia EU China and India are just not going to attempt to eliminate each other. So unless you are doing a Roman Empire-type, a German/Chinese/Italian/Japanese Unification game or a game on a fictional map, a traditional diplo just does not make any sense.

my little suggestion is to do a score-based game. You have different roles, external powers (right now US, Russia, probably EU. China,India,etc can be added later if they do indeed play a military role separate from what the existing externals already do.), republics, authoritarian regimes, rebel groups, Islamists. Each role has its goal and achievement of goals gives you points. People are finally ranked by points and not WL game victories.

The roles should at least include:
Externals: US,Russia. Has really high income. Can not be eliminated. Can not attack each other directly. Can not annex any territory in the ME. Can temporarily be gifted territories and take some but all will revert to native powers after each game. They gain points from supporting friendly regimes, depose unfriendly ones, gain contracts and get military bases.
Israel: Strong nuclear power. Israel gains points by existing, being recognized by other nations and lack of terrorist groups around Israel. Israel can not annex any territory too far away from Israel.
Authoritarian Regimes: Saudi, Oman, Jordan, Egypt, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, etc. They gain points by existing, installing friendly regimes and deposing unfriendly ones, etc.
(Islamic) Republics: Iran, Turkey, etc. They gain points by installing friendly regimes and deposing unfriendly ones, etc.
Rebels: FSA, etc. They gain points by existing and deposing regimes.
Radical Islamists: Al Qaeda and ISIS. They are PE. They gain points by expanding, etc. Radical Islamists abide by no (secular) rules. Hence everywhere they annex is theirs. But at the same time they can not be (overtly) supported by others.

WL games are only created if any military conflict is going on and ends if a major change happens to the warring entities or all military conflict ends.

Edited 1/30/2016 17:21:20
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/30/2016 17:50:18


OxTheAutist 
Level 58
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Yeah, this concept exists already. It's just hard to find games of it. I've played quite a few, and they're quite fun if the host stays active!
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/30/2016 19:40:14

(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 51
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@OTA Are you interested in doing one? I mean World Diplo is absurd since the world is generally not filled with war. Middle East Diplo is realistic.
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/31/2016 17:40:58


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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@Tabby Juggernaut (Zephaniah), i'd like to play a diplomacy series of games following these configurations. We could create a group of ACTIVE players to do it. We could change our roles on each game and make a ranking after this. We could limit the ammount of years (turns) we'd play on each game, perhaps 30-40.



As for the map, I have another sugestion. Maybe you should put the overlaping bonuses in the corner of the map (in order to avoid spaming too much the map with other bonuses.

Bonuses you could have there:
- Countries
- Rebel groups
- Ressource bonuses (Oil, Gaz, Water, Food)
- Holy Cities, Transport infrastructures and military bases bonuses


All these bonuses could be set to 0 in the settings, and game creators might chose which ones they'd like to have, if any of them xD.






Examples:

Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/31/2016 17:49:11


{Canidae} Kretoma
Level 57
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I approve of this suggestion.
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/31/2016 18:02:30

(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 51
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@TeamGuns This is a cool idea, guys. I don't like traditional diplos on world/europe/africa, etc maps because US and Russia are not interested in eliminating each other, nor does Ethiopia and South Africa. Also most of the world is ( :-) ) at peace so one of the most reasonable modern setting for a diplo is the Middle East.

Oh wait..Cyprus needs to be huge neutrals on this map since it is not involved in ME affairs. Also we do not have any location for US and Russia. US and Russia should be represented by a single 1000-army bonus not inside any ME territory respectively that is inaccessible (through high neutrals) to ME players, just like in reality no ME war can destroy US or Russia. When a war happens involving US or Russia should be put on a team with certain ME players if appropriate. US and Russia can be gifted regions though after each war all territories in the ME revert to local rule. (US and Russia can install and depose governments but they can not annex any place in the ME.)

BTW we need Libya and Afghanistan. They are in the region as well.

A typical game would be like..

In early 2016, several conflicts are going on in the ME. Syria, Iraq and Yemen are in war....After all wars end the WL game ends and everything reverts to the chat. People talk and if another war happens we create another WL game for this war. (Any major change of allegiance will leads to a WL game getting VTE, enforced by US and Russia, change settings and start a new WL game from where we VTE)

Edited 1/31/2016 18:14:01
Middle East 2016 Map Testers: 1/31/2016 18:06:39


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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Well, i'll see how can we organize such a series of games after this map is complete (it appears to me that it will be a perfect map to play this).
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