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Would dual bonuses be feasible?: 1/27/2016 01:00:12

[FCC] Zack105
Level 49
As some of you know, I've been working on a Europe map.
I took a break from it to work on another map, but now I've gotten an idea for the Europe map, and I'm not sure if it'll work.

I'd like for there to be 2 sets of bonuses, one would be the countries in the 1300's, and another would be modern day countries. For example, in the 1300's, Germany was fragmented into many groups, so each would be a bonus. However, I'd also make a bonus encompassing the whole of modern day Germany.

The point would be to give the map dual purpose- one could make either a 100 years war scenario, or a modern-day scenario.

I'd do this by setting the modern-day bonuses to 0, and so they wouldn't show on the map unless over-ridden. Would this be too much hassle for anyone attempting to switch the values?

Note: A possible way would be to set up basic templates, one with the modern bonuses, one with the 1300's bonuses

Edited 1/27/2016 01:00:43
Would dual bonuses be feasible?: 1/27/2016 03:24:15

Level 56
Hmm, that's a pretty cool idea. I agree that it would be best done with pre-made templates with the different bonus sets. I think also that you should make sure that you have one well-defined default bonus set that works right out of the box, and pick whichever era you think would be most appropriate, leaving the alternative bonuses as optional but well-documented and promoted with example templates.

Thinking about it, theoretically you could have a whole bunch of different bonus sets in a single map, couldn't you (with templates to support it)? E.g. you could have a standard set with bonuses, super-bonuses, and mega-bonuses; a non-overalapping set for local-deployment games (if the map is appropriate for that); a one-territory-one-bonus set for diplo games; etc.

As long as all the bonus definitions are provided by the map maker, then just turning some/most of them off by setting them to zero would define different sub-sets as you said. Cool.
Would dual bonuses be feasible?: 1/27/2016 15:33:53

[FCC] Zack105
Level 49
I agree, that'd be really cool, and allow for many maps to be used in different fashions. Honestly, some maps are better suited for diplo games, but have bonuses that wouldn't be suitable for a diplo game...

The only issues I see with making too many bonuses is:

A) If someone wants to change the bonuses, how are they to know the difference between bonuses? Eg., I could have a 1300 Egypt and a Modern Day Egypt, but how is one to tell the difference?
This could be solved by leaving the 1300(The bonuses you'll automatically start with) bonuses as they are, and making the modern ones "ModernBonusName", so, for example, "Modern Germany".

B)If there are too many bonuses, it makes changing them a hassle.
However, template partially take care of that- the only issue is if someone wants to manually change the game.

To me, this seems like quite a good idea- I was only thinking of it as 2 different sets, but the possibilities are endless!

Just a thought, but wouldn't it be cool if Fizzer gave the option of making different bonus sets when mapmaking, just like Scenarios? The player could just choose which one they want to play on, and boom! Customized bonuses for the scenario.

Edited 1/27/2016 15:34:29
Would dual bonuses be feasible?: 1/27/2016 17:31:28

MightySpeck (a Koala) 
Level 58
One thing you could do is add like a MD (for modern day) to end of each of the modern day bonuses so when someone is overriding the bonuses they can just control f it. (or command)

Edit: and whatever for the 1300 one too.

Edited 1/27/2016 17:31:55
Would dual bonuses be feasible?: 1/27/2016 17:44:29

Level 59
You can do it with custom scenarios, I've not read the other replies so it may already have been said, if so then sorry!

Lets say it's a 2 player game, you have 4 territories that aren't connected to anything else or each other (call them a,b,c,d)

a/b would be in a 1300 "box" and c/d in the "modern" box.

All areas would then have 4 overlaying bonuses:
bonus for 1300 + a
bonus for 1300 + b
bonus for modern + c
bonus for modern + d

If you're playing 1300 scenario:
player 1 starts on the map + a
player 2 starts on the map + b

If you're playing modern scenario:
player 1 starts on the map + c
player 2 starts on the map + d

This is very complicated, requires custom scenario, and a win by elimination would be impossible, but this would be a solution! ^_^

Honestly, it might be better just to have 2 maps? Unless you want to give players a and d and have "time wars" :D

Edited 1/27/2016 17:45:47
Would dual bonuses be feasible?: 1/27/2016 18:17:58

Level 60
You could do it with templates (turning on/off bonuses). The problem would be many would play with them all on (and never use your template), so you'd get a lot of confusion. It would also be a pain for creating new templates on the map (to turn on/off a ton of them).

Probably better to just have two maps from the same SVG slightly altered. Like Europe 1300 and Europe 1600, or whatever it is. I see no disadvantage to that.
Would dual bonuses be feasible?: 1/27/2016 18:25:52

[FCC] Zack105
Level 49
MightySpeck- I think I'll just add 'Modern', as to not confuse people

Fleecemaster- To be honest, I didn't understand what you said. What's wrong with the proposed solution I said above?

Chris- The thing is, I'll make the modern-day bonuses, but have them set to 0 initially. Therefore, if someone just decides to make a quick game and chose the map, it'll automatically only have the 1300 ones enabled. HOWEVER, I'll have a template with only the modern ones active, so those who want it will use the template
Would dual bonuses be feasible?: 1/27/2016 22:15:41

M. Poireau
Level 55
It seems like the best way to do this would be:

1) Make them separate maps. (Probably the easiest!)

2) Include a variety of templates, linked from the Map page. (May still confuse people a great deal.)

3) Name each bonus with a distinctive name indicating which "set of bonuses" it belongs to. This makes it easy for a player to modify the bonus structure.

For instance, the Modern Europe bonuses all start with "Modern [territory name]", as suggested earlier, the local deployment bonuses are all named "Local Deployment [territory name]", and so on.

By default, the map has ALL the bonuses "ON". When you start the game, you set all but the ones you want to use to "0".

I don't really see the benefit of #3 over #1, but if you have a particularly clever map which could use some bizarre *combination* of bonuses from different scenarios, it could be interesting.

(Fleecemaster's solution is also good, but then your map isn't really useful for any other purpose than the scenarios you've set up.)

Edited 1/27/2016 22:16:38
Would dual bonuses be feasible?: 1/27/2016 23:25:33

Level 60
Zack, I understood the idea to start with. You did not read my comments. Most people won't even see your template. They will just make a custom game on the map and never read the template URL in the map description. I know from experience. So unless they actually use your templates, their game will likely play really odd.
Would dual bonuses be feasible?: 1/28/2016 01:46:55

[FCC] Zack105
Level 49
Chris- By default, the only bonuses enabled would be the 1300 ones. How would this lead to an 'odd game'?

Honestly, the idea of making 2 maps probably won't pass Fizzer- too many map replicas floating around
Would dual bonuses be feasible?: 1/28/2016 02:04:42

[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
The problem with multiple maps is that the map editor would need you to manually re-enter territory names. Yes, the SVG would be the same, but you would need to reenter each territory name and connection. With a lot of territories, this could be time consuming and lead to errors/inconsistencies.

Here's my proposal:
When coding bonuses, for the default, add in just the bonus name and value.
For the alternate, add in an A-BonusName and set them all to default to 0 for the first alternate sequence of bonuses.
For a 2nd alternate, add in a B-BonusName and set them all to default to 0 for the second, etc.

Then, On the map page, add in links to public templates, that you have pre-selected the bonus values for. That way, the template can be edited.

The reason for A-BonusName, and B-BonusName is so that in the game creation window, those bonuses are all grouped together.


As a new idea, maybe you could have some bonuses that would always be on, during A and B, you could code them differently, maybe with a 0-BonusName.
Would dual bonuses be feasible?: 1/28/2016 15:30:05

[FCC] Zack105
Level 49
Yep, that was pretty much my plan
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