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The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:03:35


Darth Darth Binks
Level 56
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Sweet Mother Theresa on the hood of a Mercedes Benz, Syria has gone to shit. Half of its pre-war population is either dead or migrated, ISIS just suicide-bombed Damascus after months upon months of occupying parts of the country, and Russia and the USA have started up their proxy war bullshit again in what many believe to be the worst humanitarian crisis going on right now.

So let's start with Assad and his civil war. I don't know much about why it started, but I do know that many countries say that Assad has used chemical weapons on civilians at least once. The best President evah, Mr. Barack Obama, drew a red line at something like this, but pussied out when it happened, stating that, "the world drew the red line." Assad and those supporting him say that the rebels AKA the terrorists, as Assad and co. call them, are the ones to use chemical weapons.
With ISIS's declaration of war against Russia, Putin has been going ham on everyone. ISIS and terrebel alike. Meanwhile, Obama is... dropping some supplies? Maybe a few drone/missile strikes? Yeah, the USA needs to get the hell out of there, in regards to the civil war, at least. Even if Assad did use chemical weapons once (I think he did) it's way too late to take him out now. If the terrebels even manage to get enough help from the USA to take down Assad's regime, what with him getting direct help from Putin, guess what happens? Even more shit, because there won't be an established power, and ISIS will only benefit.

Speaking of ISIS, they bombed Damascus. Damascus! How many world capitals are they going to attack? It was nowhere near as bad as what happened in Paris, as only 20 were confirmed to be killed, but still, f*ckin Damascus! It's not all bad, though. Half the population wasn't there to be injured, because they're somewhere else entirely!

Europe, as well as the neighboring nations of Syria, have been swamped with refugees. Poor Lebanon has over a million; so does Turkey. Christ, people, when half a country emigrates, something's going on. That something is the USA and Russia trying to start Cold War II, and ISIS wreaking terror everywhere they go, killing everyone who doesn't agree with them, outright ethnically cleansing the land of Christians especially. Remember when Mosul had people living in it?

There's a new country in Europe. I believe it is known as "Swedenstan." Seriously, they made a fucking countryball of Sweden with a burka. It's actually pretty funny. And then we have European countries bowing down to these refugees, slowly changing their ways to accommodate to the culture of the sods they're helping out. French Burger King takes bacon out of the menu (although this is more business related than anything), people and government antagonizing the women sexually assaulted in Cologne, Brits trying to ban Donald Trump but not the bozos marching around for Sharia Law and the death of those who insult Islam. Come on...

I don't see how Syria can be saved from utter shit. Let's just put the poor fools out of their misery. It's not like the UN would stop us from doing it.

Screw this topic. Stay edgy and have a nice time.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:05:31


SirSalty
Level 49
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They come to Europe to flee Europeans bombs.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:06:52


Azraelkali53
Level 46
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doesn't excuse poor behaviour salty.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:08:19


GeneralPE
Level 56
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"They come to Europe to flee Europeans bombs."

FFS, we are bombing terrorists, and we only bombed AFTER the war was well begun. They are fleeing ISIS an oppression and anarchy, not our bombs.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:18:39


Darth Darth Binks
Level 56
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They come to Europe to flee Europeans bombs.

No.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:20:46


SirSalty
Level 49
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Yes of course, the ignorant mislead American thinks they are bombing "terrorists" when civiallins pay the ultimate price for what ? Living ? To flee persecution by ISIS or complete destruction via western bombs the obvious choice would be to Flee to the coast of Greece, where many would die before getting there.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:22:10


SirSalty
Level 49
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If you guys want to listen to a news channel that doesn't cover up the homicide being committed by our Bombers then watch Channel 4 news.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:23:52


Darth Darth Binks
Level 56
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Salty, civilians are fleeing regardless of who is involved. It's a civil war with a side of ISIS. And what the hell do you mean by "western bombs?" Russia is doing more than anyone, now. I think you might be a little salty.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:24:50


GeneralPE
Level 56
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I would rather 10,000 civilians die with ISIS if we could end this war in a few months and save a million from the ravages of war.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:27:24


SirSalty
Level 49
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Do you think this war is just going to end ? It isn't the death tolls will continue to rise.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:29:30


Cata Cauda 
Level 57
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Even more shit, because there won't be an established power, and ISIS will only benefit.

Thats the wound point here, which kinda makes everything hard. As far as I know the IS could only grow to a military power after the US left Iraq (2011?). So at first the IS must be destroyed, then people can work on the Syria-conflict itself.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:36:23


GeneralPE
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"Do you think this war is just going to end ? It isn't the death tolls will continue to rise."
It will if we do 2 things. The first is realize that dictators are the only way to prevent terrorism in the Middle East, and support Assad unequivocally provided he refrains from severe abuses after the war. The second is to completely and utterly destroy them with an uninhibited total war. Credible military figures agree we could defeat IS in under a year.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:37:28


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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This is what happens when European countries and America try to institute regime change.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:38:23


SirSalty
Level 49
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Ah the serenity of Western hypocrisy; the same people who mourned the Paris attack victims, screaming "Bloody Mary" at ISIS are the same people who don't care that civiallins on a large scale die in Syria. When the fact is the situations are no different; maybe even a worse situation for the Syrians. So why is the same respect given to the fallen refugees ? Why are they different ?
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:40:58


SirSalty
Level 49
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Of course America can defeat ISIS in a year. Because the USA have achieved many great military successes in recent years. Iraq, Afghanistan; hell I'll even throw Vietanm in there. All these countries faced up against the mighty USA with their armies which in comparison looked feeble.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:46:59


GeneralPE
Level 56
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" the same people who mourned the Paris attack victims, screaming "Bloody Mary" at ISIS are the same people who don't care that civiallins on a large scale die in Syria. When the fact is the situations are no different"
1.)The Paris attacks were perpetrated by our enemies, on our allies. We have no connection like that with Syrians.
2.) The murder of innocents in Paris had no effect on ending a long, brutal war which would bring even more casualties. I am not saying i don't care for the lives of Syrians, but lives can be saved by a ruthless blitzkrieg that ends it soon.


"So why is the same respect given to the fallen refugees ? Why are they different ?"
1.) I think you mean "why is the same respect NOT given to the fallen refugees"
2.) Because they aren't us. I won't apologize for the fact that I care more for our allies and Americans and Westerners that I can relate to than a foreign, unnamed civilian ignoring our culture to impose their own wherever they go.
3.) I am not saying they don't matter; they do. But as I said before, a ruthless war will save lives.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:48:27


GeneralPE
Level 56
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We kicked Iraq's and Afghanistan's asses both times; we just fucked up by nation-building. Vietnam was a different situation. Please learn basic military strategy and history.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:52:57


Darth Darth Binks
Level 56
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Ah the serenity of Western hypocrisy; the same people who mourned the Paris attack victims, screaming "Bloody Mary" at ISIS are the same people who don't care that civiallins on a large scale die in Syria. When the fact is the situations are no different; maybe even a worse situation for the Syrians. So why is the same respect given to the fallen refugees ? Why are they different ?

I'm sorry, Salty, but the situations are very different. One is a terrorist attack aimed at civilians for the purpose of killing civilians. One is the loss that comes with war, a war that was started by Syrians. The loss is sad, but cannot be avoided as long as war keeps going on.

Of course America can defeat ISIS in a year. Because the USA have achieved many great military successes in recent years. Iraq, Afghanistan; hell I'll even throw Vietanm in there. All these countries faced up against the mighty USA with their armies which in comparison looked feeble.

You know, if our leaders wouldn't half-ass wars, then the USA would have a much better track record.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:54:00


SirSalty
Level 49
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You haven't kicked anyone's ass since WW2, even saying that is pushing it. Iraq and Afghanistan was wars built on the foundation of lies, terror and greed.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 17:55:39


GeneralPE
Level 56
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Persian Gulf. Taliban. Didn't kick ass in Iraq (nation-building messed us up), but we still won the war. STFU please.

" Iraq and Afghanistan was wars built on the foundation of lies, terror and greed."
You act like 99% of wars aren't built on that.

Edited 2/3/2016 17:56:56
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 18:18:33


Lord Varys
Level 47
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Salty, shut it. Your argument is shit; I'm not even going to bother with you.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 18:25:52


{Canidae} Kretoma
Level 57
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Please everyone be polite (you will ignore that for sure...). ;)
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 18:52:41


Eklipse {TJC}
Level 56
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Every conversation about Syria suffers from the same thing. People sit around assigning blame instead of trying to talk about possible solutions.

Honestly, what does it matter who's fault it is at this point? The damage is done, now we have to fix it.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/3/2016 18:53:20


Darth Darth Binks
Level 56
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You haven't kicked anyone's ass since WW2, even saying that is pushing it. Iraq and Afghanistan was wars built on the foundation of lies, terror and greed.
Because we half-assed everything.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/4/2016 16:48:04


GeneralPE
Level 56
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"Honestly, what does it matter who's fault it is at this point? The damage is done, now we have to fix it."
That's why I'm saying we should launch a ruthless and swift total war. Salty is the one just blaming Western bombs for everything.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/4/2016 17:16:02


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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Iraq and Afghanistan was wars built on the foundation of lies, terror and greed.

Salty is right in this case. The Bush-Neocon push for a Middle East war was entirely self-serving in that it created a larger deficit and debt while creating more Islamic instability and costing thousands of lives. There's a significant argument to be made that ISIS would not exist without the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

People sit around assigning blame instead of trying to talk about possible solutions.

Here's only a few I can offer (obviously none of us are experts at Middle-East policy...and even experts of the Middle East get confused)

1) Give Kurdistan Independence in Syria
2) Remove Turkey from NATO and impose sanctions on them to weaken Erdogan's power
3) Form a coalition of Russia, NATO, and Gulf States to first defeat ISIS through air power and Muslim soldiers only
4) Have Basad step down and given immunity in Russia
5) Have the UN control Free Syria and Iraq as a mandate (like UN controlled Kosovo) until order is restored and a new coalition government composed of moderates (there are very few right now because many are refugees) is formed

Edited 2/4/2016 17:16:28
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/4/2016 17:21:35


GeneralPE
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I like the first three; unfortunately, we need Assad in power to keep order. But we should make him accountable to the UN and dispose of him if he commits severe human rights abuses.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/4/2016 17:28:14


Eklipse {TJC}
Level 56
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@Jai

1. Definitely agree. The Kurds more than deserve their own nation at this point.
2. Removing Turkey from NATO likely won't happen as they are one of the U.S' only stable allies in the region aside from Israel.
3. Agreed.
4. There's one major problem with this: Russia would never agree to it. They consider the Assad government a major ally and will likely support him as long as feasible. Also, as GeneralPE said, Assad is pretty much the only source of stability in Syria at the moment.
5. This plan would require the UN deploying a large number of troops to keep order and I don't know how much the shell-shocked Western populations would allow it.

However, I am not a foreign policy expert either. Good on you for at-least brainstorming possible answers unlike most on this thread.
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/4/2016 17:39:32


Platinum
Level 58
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Edited 2/5/2016 00:29:17
The Martian Rants: Syria. Again.: 2/4/2016 17:59:58


Gen. NumbNuts
Level 48
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Platinum isnt gold colored...
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