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Conservative Minorities: 2/19/2016 17:10:36


Eklipse {TJC}
Level 56
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I've noticed a disturbing trend within society and more leftist circles in particular, and that's the double-standards regarding treatment of minority members who are/lean conservative on certain issues. Progressives generally paint themselves as guardians of minorities and the Democrat party in the U.S has built much of their platform on protecting minority groups. That's very noble, but in many cases that nobility seems to vanish when these groups are confronted with minorities who don't see eye to eye with the liberal mainstream.

Some notable examples of this are Milo Yiannopoulos (Openly gay, but conservative on a notable number of topics) and Caitlyn Jenner (Transgender who is also a registered Republican). These two, ironically, seem to receive an almost equal amount of hate for being conservative as they do for being LGBT. It doesn't just stop there though. Just about any time you have a prominent African American politician within the Republican party they're immediately dismissed by the left as being an "Uncle Tom" or a "Token minority". Hispanics and Asian Americans don't suffer as much from this but are still likely to get strange looks if they tell people they identify more with conservative/right-wing politics.

Now, not all leftists are guilty of this. There are many who still treat minority groups the same way regardless of political leanings. However, there's still a disgraceful number of so-called "progressives" who claim to defend minorities but will turn against them on a dime if they go against liberal ideology.

I could go on a tirade about how this is all part of a larger societal slant against conservatives, but that's a topic for another time.
Conservative Minorities: 2/19/2016 17:16:33


Blank
Level 36
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tl;dr
Conservative Minorities: 2/19/2016 17:19:27


kynte
Level 51
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Congratulations. You've just discovered that people actually judge you based on your ideology and actions!

That's all for today, class. Tomorrow we'll learn about peer pressure. Don't forget to get your parents to sign your forms!
Conservative Minorities: 2/19/2016 17:20:28


King C******* V
Level 58
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What if my Dad refuses to sign it? He says friends are just leeches. :(
Conservative Minorities: 2/19/2016 17:24:10


OxTheAutist 
Level 58
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I'd judge a Conservative whether they're white, black, yellow, grey, red, brown, or whatever :D

just me ._.
Conservative Minorities: 2/19/2016 17:25:42


GeneralPE
Level 56
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You should expand and put this on the one site Paugers has
Conservative Minorities: 2/19/2016 17:26:05


Eklipse {TJC}
Level 56
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Congratulations. You've just discovered that people actually judge you based on your ideology and actions!

You missed the point by a mile. There's a difference between judging someone's political views and hating them over it. It's also a double standard that minorities with liberal views are given more credit than those with conservative views. They should all be treated with the same level of respect, but that's not the case.

Whenever the Democrats put forth a minority candidate it's called progress. When Republicans put forth a minority candidate he/she is called a token candidate.

As final note, you can't claim to be a party who is all about empowering/protecting minorities only to turn around and spit on them whenever they slightly break ranks.

Do you have a counter-argument? Or are you just here to be intentionally dense?

You should expand and put this on the one site Paugers has

Yeah, I probably should have put more detail in it. I figured the point was clear enough but I should have expected people like Knyte alt #2 (Or whichever of his however many alts vitriol is) to intentionally miss the point and then try to paint me as foolish.

Edited 2/19/2016 17:28:37
Conservative Minorities: 2/19/2016 17:27:07


Belgian Gentleman
Level 55
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American Politics sometimes...


...it might become dangerous at some moment.
Conservative Minorities: 2/19/2016 19:15:17


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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This is a good point. It applies I feel more specifically right now to African Americans who lean conservative. Since most Africans vote Democratic (no matter who the person running is or how corrupt they are), any African American who is Republican or Conservative gets labeled a Uncle Tom, which is not only disgusting but wildly inaccurate.
Conservative Minorities: 2/19/2016 19:57:56


Beren • apex 
Level 62
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There's a difference between judging someone's political views and hating them over it.


Because hating someone over their political views is something conservatives never do.
Conservative Minorities: 2/19/2016 20:11:58


Darth Darth Binks
Level 56
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Because hating someone over their political views is something conservatives never do.

And I guess you just assume Eklipse thinks that.
Conservative Minorities: 2/19/2016 20:19:52


knyte 
Level 58
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People are free to hate people over their political views. Just because something's in the Overton window doesn't mean that everyone has to accept it on a personal level.

If you were a homophobic anti-abortion activist who lived in a society where it was acceptable to, say, get married as a gay couple or commit an abortion, would you be obligated to accept the behaviors you campaign against just because everyone else does?

Similarly, some people think that a few mainstream beliefs (like certain stances on social issues) are seriously wrong or reflect some sort of deficit on the part of people who hold them. I personally think it's weird that I live in a society where it's okay to push for gender roles, nationalism, and reduced rights for certain minorities. Regardless of how many people hold these beliefs, I can't help but think that they're fundamentally wrong and that people who hold them are, well, missing something. And if a woman pushes for gender roles or a gay man pushes for a federal ban on gay marriage, well, in certain circumstances I might find that even more appalling because from my perspective it makes even less sense for them to hold these views.

Obviously, you have to be careful with this- sometimes, this could just mean that your own reasoning is flawed, so it's usually worthwhile to think and listen before being weirded out and questioning someone's sanity, honesty or motives. And just because you think someone buys into a harmful ideology doesn't mean that you can't respect them as a person.

But it also explains why some people ask more questions about Hispanic Trump supporters, or why I think you, The Conservative, and Pawgers are eventually either going to look back at this and cringe... or are just complete idiots. People pass judgments based on your actions and professed beliefs- and their contexts.
Conservative Minorities: 2/19/2016 20:19:57


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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To be a part of a minority and be a conservative, it's being stupid... Conservatives are anti-lgbt rights, anti-black lives matter, anti-imigration,...

So if you're a transgender, you can't be a conservative unless you believe yourself to be an abomination.

You can however, be a transgender and a republican, because the republican party isn't just conservative, but has also economy policies that are pro neo-liberalism and anti big government. Any person who discriminates a minority because they choosed the economy view of a party over it's moral views, is just dumb.


There's a problem in the US and it's stupid two party system, because there's 4 main politics topics:
- Big government, opposed to Economic liberalism
- Conservative in moral issues opposed to Liberalism in moral issues

The catchy thing, is that while the republican party is pro Economic liberalism and conservative, the democratic party is pro Big gvt and is liberal.

People that disagree with one of the central issues of each party are then forced to choose on either their moral position or economic one.

It's a bad system that could use some fixing, as there's no social-conservative parties or all-liberal ones.
Conservative Minorities: 2/19/2016 20:31:37


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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There's a problem in the US and it's stupid two party system, because there's 4 main politics topics:
- Big government, opposed to Economic liberalism
- Conservative in moral issues opposed to Liberalism in moral issues

The catchy thing, is that while the republican party is pro Economic liberalism and conservative, the democratic party is pro Big gvt and is liberal.

People that disagree with one of the central issues of each party are then forced to choose on either their moral position or economic one.

It's a bad system that could use some fixing, as there's no social-conservative parties or all-liberal ones.


+1. Couldn't agree more with this summary. The problem is that the original government as designed by the Founding Fathers worked best for small countries, both geographically and population wise. We either need to convert to a Westminster Parliamentarian government or except that more people are going to fall through the cracks in the political process because they increasingly don't identify with either party on a majority of issues.
Conservative Minorities: 2/19/2016 20:39:11


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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To be a part of a minority and be a conservative, it's being stupid... Conservatives are anti-lgbt rights, anti-black lives matter, anti-imigration,...

Eh I disagree with this analysis on a variety of issues. Most conservatives are not anti-lgbt rights, but against the supreme court uniformly imposing legislative policy on all states. Most conservatives argue that states should define marriage. Conservatives have no basis to deny civil unions to gay couples, however I think there is an issue at stake in redefining a millennium old definition of marriage for no more than 5% of the population. I have no problem with states like California or New York changing their definition of marriage. The problem becomes when the federal government imposes that definition on states outside their jurisdiction. No where in the constitution is the definition of marriage given, so that right to define it belongs via the 10th amendment to the states.

Also how is wrong for the child of immigrants to be a conservative? This is my personal perspective: the GOP is not anti-immigrant and nor are conservatives anti-immigrant. What conservatives and republicans are against is illegal immigration and open borders. Those are two completely different sets, and to combine them to make a political point is disingenuous. Also I think the policy of amnesty and open borders being pushed by Democrats is the greatest insult that can be given to recent legal immigrants to the United States. For those who's parents payed their way to the US, gave up family and friends and their culture in some cases to come to the US, who faced enormous difficulties in adjusting to life in the US...to then have the government say to everyone who broke the law that they get a free pass, that they can enjoy the same rights and liberties as others, and that they can eventually vote and hold citizenship is like pissing in their face and telling them they don't mean shit.
Conservative Minorities: 2/19/2016 20:59:42


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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There's a fragile line between legal and illegal immigration... If you're rich/european, you're a legal immigrant. If you're poor and wants better economic opportunities or flee areas with repressive regimes (often, let's face it, created by the US and old colonial powers), you'll get kicked out of the country you're going to.

I agree no country can absorb all the misery of the world and accept every one, but there's currentely no real path towards legal immigration for a lot of brilliant minds the US could use
Conservative Minorities: 2/19/2016 21:43:08


Darth Darth Binks
Level 56
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anti-black lives matter
But this is a good thing to be.
Conservative Minorities: 2/20/2016 01:51:59


Benjamin628 
Level 59
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<----Conservative/Libertarian Minority

I'd like to 100% Agree with Ekilpse, and no, not all Conservatives hate black people...

So if you're a transgender, you can't be a conservative unless you believe yourself to be an abomination.

That is explicitly incorrect. Conservative and Christian are not related other than the fact that a large majority of Conservatives are Christian.

Edited 2/20/2016 01:56:20
Conservative Minorities: 2/20/2016 02:21:34


Terre
Level 37
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Conservative and Christian are not related other than the fact that a large majority of Conservatives are Christian.


I think it's more like the other way around...
Conservative Minorities: 2/20/2016 02:29:05


Darth Darth Binks
Level 56
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^It's not. The Black community is Baptist. The Latino community is Catholic. Then there are all the white Christians who are simply left-wing thinkers.
Conservative Minorities: 2/20/2016 02:34:02


Zephyrum 
Level 60
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Well, at least in here, it's pretty much the other way around.

If you say you are a christian automatically people think you're a conservative.

If you say you are a conservative people just think you want guns and death penalty.
Conservative Minorities: 2/20/2016 03:16:11

wct
Level 56
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Obviously, you have to be careful with this- sometimes, this could just mean that your own reasoning is flawed, so it's usually worthwhile to think and listen before being weirded out and questioning someone's sanity, honesty or motives. And just because you think someone buys into a harmful ideology doesn't mean that you can't respect them as a person.

But it also explains why some people ask more questions about Hispanic Trump supporters, or why I think you, The Conservative, and Pawgers are eventually either going to look back at this and cringe... or are just complete idiots. People pass judgments based on your actions and professed beliefs- and their contexts.

Well said, knyte.
Conservative Minorities: 2/20/2016 03:26:14

wct
Level 56
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Jai:
however I think there is an issue at stake in redefining a millennium old definition of marriage for no more than 5% of the population.

So, do you support the traditional, millennia-old definition of polygamous marriage, as supported in Jewish, Christian, and Muslim sacred texts?
Conservative Minorities: 2/20/2016 03:34:35


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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Cite the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim texts please. I am only vaguely familiar with some parts of the Bible from brief reading.

I support the definition of marriage before Obergefell: "the legally or formally recognized union of a man and a woman as partners in a relationship."

That does not mean however, that I do not support civil unions for gay couples or the freedom of individual states to redefine the definition of marriage by democratic majority consensus.
Conservative Minorities: 2/20/2016 03:56:52

wct
Level 56
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Torah, Bible and Quran.

"the legally or formally recognized union of a man and a woman as partners in a relationship."

Where'd you get this from? Seems like a modern definition, not one from thousands of years ago.

Edited 2/20/2016 03:58:29
Conservative Minorities: 2/20/2016 03:58:32


[AOE] JaiBharat909
Level 56
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I know what each is called. I don't live in a cave.

I said cite the actual text, not their names.
Conservative Minorities: 2/20/2016 04:49:05

wct
Level 56
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Really, it's all through the Bible and Torah. How many wives did Abraham have? Three. Solomon? Hundreds. How many wives are allowed in Islam, according to the Quran? Four. Mohammad himself had more, and was allowed to marry as many as he wanted.

In the Bible specifically, the most common form of marriage mentioned is polygamous marriage.

Here's a video (by some Muslim person) that has a few verse citations, including some mentions from Hindu scriptures: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na2DENb7gdo

Some links:
http://www.godrules.net/articles/polygamy.htm
http://www.bibleresearch.org/articles/alw2.htm
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/interp/polygamy.html

Edited 2/20/2016 05:08:02
Conservative Minorities: 2/20/2016 05:00:36


Genghis 
Level 52
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This thread. Avoid it like the plague.
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