Play
Multi-Player
Coins
Community
Settings
Help
Community   Maps   Forum   Mail   Ladders   Clans   Recent Games
Sign In | Sign Up
<< Back to General Forum   

Posts 1 - 30 of 65   1  2  3  Next >>   
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/25/2016 09:03:24


Pushover 
Level 59
Report
Hi all,

The world series of Warlight (WSOW) is something that Ineffable started, and I volunteered to continue. It is a series of double elimination tournaments where placement in each tournament gives you points. In addition there is a playoff round among the top finishers at the end of the season (at least for seasons 1 and 2). The player with the most points wins.

Season 2 is described here: https://www.warlight.net/Forum/65898-wsow-2
Season 1 was similar, but had different rules.

The season 1 results and season 2 standings are here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Rh2GN43b20I9lYKFgbXD8Xx63SpZlSEzowIii7jgJls/pub?outpu

The purpose of this thread is to establish the rules and structure of season 3 with the help and feedback of the Warlight community. In addition, you can reply to this thread if you are interested in playing (note: I plan to contact players from season 2 separately, but they can reply here as well). However, this is a very very VERY long league. Season 2, though delayed by Ineffable's inactivity, has taken well over a year so far, and probably won't finish until this summer. Season 3 should easily take a year. So if you want to join, please plan for the long term.

These are some aspects of the league I am certain about at this point:

* I want to do a series of 9 tournaments, with each tournament on a different template.
* Only points from the top 6 finishes will count (rewarding performance over activity). You can still join all tournaments, but invites will be prioritized based on number of tournaments completed: 0 completed get first invite, 1 completed get invited 3 or more days later, 2 completed get invited 6 or more days later, and so on. Once a tournament fills, that's it.
* The season 2 practice of limiting entry to A/B tournaments is abolished.
* Tournament size and point allocation will depend on how many people sign up. 100 initial signups is good for 64-player tournaments. If I get closer to 200 I will move to 128 player tournaments.
* Tournament order will be randomized
* There will be a 3 month gap between the starts of tournaments 3 and 4, as well as the starts of tournaments 6 and 7, to give time for tournaments to complete. Otherwise each new tournament will be created after the previous one starts.

Things I am not sure about:

* Should there be a playoff system? If so, how should it be designed? In prior seasons, most players in the playoff round had 0 chance of winning.

* I mostly like the point system, but there is a huge gap in points for adjacent placements. The points heavily reward a single good placement in a tournament over decent placement in several tournaments. Should this be kept, or should an alternative point system be used?

For reference these were the points awarded for double elimination 64 player tournaments in season 2:
1st=2000
2nd=1200
3rd=800
4th=600
5-6th=400
7-8th=300
9-12th=200
13-16th=150
17-24th=100
25-32th=50
33-48th=25
49-64th=10

* What should the templates be? I think at least these templates should be used for their popularity:

Classic Ladder - Medium Earth 0% WR
Ancient Greece 0% SR
Guiroma 0% SR
Battle Islands V 0% SR

I am also leaning towards including these:

East Asia & Oceania - 0% WR with classic ladder army settings - I'd like at least one other good WR template in the mix
Turkey Local Deployment 0% SR - I want to see LD represented, and this is a good template for it
French Brawl - This template has become popular recently among top players, and is different enough from other templates to warrant inclusion

Other considerations:

Phobia 0% WR - This is a biased pick, as I finished 2nd place in the WSOW season 2 tournament, my best finish of season 2. Can also be considered with 0% SR luck
Europe - a rather large map for 1v1 play in my opinion, but I haven't played this template much. Can you guys enlighten me about whether this is a good or bad pick? Also used for season 2
Treasure Map - I personally really like this template
Ancient China - a very unique template, but I utterly hate how only 1/4 of the screen is used for this map
Snow Mountains Multiattack - recommended by MoD
Fast MME - Offensive kill ratio larger than defensive kill ratio

Thank you for your feedback and participation!

Edited 3/26/2016 21:31:01
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/25/2016 15:16:58


master of desaster 
Level 64
Report
Cool cool cool! I don't like turkey ld very much. Maybe replace it with MA? Snowy mountains or battle island?
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/25/2016 15:58:56


Platinum
Level 58
Report
I'm interested in playing if WSOW Season 3 goes ahead.
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/25/2016 16:35:56


PanagiotisTheGreekFreak
Level 61
Report
I'm interested too.What would be the boot rates?(at 1 day 10 hours or 3 days?)
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/25/2016 16:38:12


Tjoex
Level 59
Report
I'm interested as well
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 02:50:32


Pushover 
Level 59
Report
MoD, I added Snow Mountains to the list of templates to consider. I won't get rid of Turkey LD. I don't expect everyone to like all templates. As to multi-attack... in theory there should be a MA template for the sake of diversity. But most warlighters don't play MA games, myself included (I avoid it like the plague). If I do include multi-attack it would not be more than one template.

To everyone else: what is your opinion of multi-attack?

Boot rate is 3 days, and vacation will be respected.

One more thing, obviously alt accounts are not allowed. I don't have a way to check for them, so I'm expecting everyone who joins to be nice, honest people who want a fair competition.
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 03:44:48


USA Biches
Level 61
Report
I would like to participate. I am also not a fan of Turkey LD either for tournaments at least the games can be very very slow. I do enjoy and would like to see at least one MA. I think the winner should be able to have some diversity in his game play (;
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 04:13:19


Platinum
Level 58
Report
Hmm, Yeah sorry Pushover I don't like Turkey LD either... I would be pretty upset if I had to play a tournament on it. About Multi-Attack, I don't care I don't play the MA Templates so I don't have a opinion on that.
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 05:00:42


Master Turtle 
Level 60
Report
I'll give WSOW another shot.... Though boots seem to hit me whenever I start getting deep into a tournament :(

I like MA in general and dislike LD (nothing personal against Turkey, so I would be ok with Strat. Turkey)
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 07:34:50


Timinator 
Level 62
Report
I'd avoid the turkey LD too. template is no fun, heavly depending on pick-luck rather often.
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 09:26:30


Pushover 
Level 59
Report
Any suggestions for a multi-attack template?

Any suggestions for a local deployment template that isn't turkey? Is there any LD love at all?

If you make a pick luck argument about Turkey LD then surely the same argument would be made about Turkey not-LD. Is it the map you have an issue with or LD? I don't agree with the argument that turkey LD games go on for too long, hell, in WSOW I'm waiting on a classic ME game that's at nearly 40 turns. Turkey non-LD I think isn't as good a template as other 0% SR templates so I'd be tempted to omit the map altogether if not LD.

Clearly I as league administrator would approve all templates to be considered. But what do you think the best way to choose the ones that will be used? Take top finishers of season 2 and have them vote? Have all participants of season 3 vote? Take votes in advisement but I would pick templates for their diversity, not just popularity? (But clearly reject templates that aren't liked by most people?) What do you think of these ideas? I have to be wary if I choose templates myself though, as I would be very tempted to pick unpopular templates I happen to do well on :P

One note, who cares if you don't like 1 or 2 templates. Remember guys that only 6 of the 9 count! Chances are you'll pick and choose which tournies to focus on anyway (though playing all the tournies does have advantages even if you suck at it)
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 09:30:38


Pushover 
Level 59
Report
Also, what is your opinion on random move order vs. cyclic move order vs. pure skill? Classic ladder should maintain random order of course. But when does it make sense to use on other templates?

...now that I think about it I wonder if I should just have people nominate 1v1 templates like Clan League, or just pick from that template list even.
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 09:55:22

An abandoned account
Level 56
Report
If you're going to include local deployments and multi-attack for the sake of diversity, then what about commanders, complete fog, alternate kill ratios or no split mode?
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 11:04:42


tomjh
Level 55
Report
I'm going to suggest Empire of CORP 0% SR 1v1, I'll edit the link in later.

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?TemplateID=830489

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=10821603

Edited 3/26/2016 11:10:13
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 11:09:58


Buns157 
Level 66
Report
Too big.
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 11:11:22


tomjh
Level 55
Report
6 picks though, that's over 5% of territories taken off the bat, I think it's similar to the 1v1 Ladder template.
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 11:11:39


tomjh
Level 55
Report
Join the game if you want a proof of concept.
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 11:39:03


Buns157 
Level 66
Report
Most people consider emergency blockade non-strategic, since it is just hoping for a luckshot. But then there is also airlift, which is even worse for 1v1s in my opinion :/

Also the number of superbonuses which cause multiple picks in many bonuses kill it.
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 11:44:08


timon92 
Level 62
Report
Don't listen to them, LD is awesome. Keep it.

Anyone remembers Ruthless Bastard's Blitzkrieg tournaments? These are awesome MA templates. I'm too lazy to search and provide links.
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 12:46:27


tomjh
Level 55
Report
Okay, so no Airlift, no Emergency Blockade, I can implement that.

Check the template again now, I've kept emergency blockade because it can be used to block a superbonus, which is probably more stratgical on this map than ME.

Edited 3/26/2016 12:49:15
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 19:52:48


Pushover 
Level 59
Report
timon, if you are too lazy to search I'm sure that other people who don't know what you're talking about will also be too lazy to search. get off your ass if you want to see MA in WSOW lol.

I'll keep Turkey LD in consideration, I am still confused over where all this anti LD sentiment came from...? Though I'd like Timi to expand on what templates he thinks emphasizes pick luck too much and whether he thinks it's a template problem or a map problem.

If you're going to include local deployments and multi-attack for the sake of diversity, then what about commanders, complete fog, alternate kill ratios or no split mode?


This is a really good question!

MA has been a feature of warlight since before I started playing, and has a niche group of people who like playing it. It has recently become more popular among strategic players so I am tempted to include it.

Local Deployments is relatively new but has still been out for a while. People are still pretty split on this, but the Turkey LD template used on both the seasonal ladder and the real time ladder was a big hit with many tournaments being created on this template outside of ladders.

Commanders - Lolowut has been very outspoken about this, that commanders aren't strategic until you can customize the weight of the commander. It's also a newer feature that I haven't seen used much in strategic play.

Complete Fog - I don't view this as strategic. Can you prove me wrong with a provided template? Note that French Brawl uses a ligher fog setting.

Alternate kill ratios - I've become fond of Fast MME (known commonly as "Fast Earth") which has a higher offensive kill ratio than defensive. I've added it to the list of templates to be considered. Higher defensive kill ratio tends to be more boring and prolong games.

No split mode - this is a possibility, but I haven't seen any love for this mode outside of that one ladder season. Anyone disagree?

So in summary... I think I would like to try to strike a balance between template diversity and popularity. I don't want to use obscure templates that rewards people who have played it before over people encountering it for the first time, but I also don't want to use the same kinds of templates over and over, because the goal here is to test warlight skill over a large number of scenarios.
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 19:58:37


Pushover 
Level 59
Report
Note that I am asking a lot of questions in this thread, but the community is answering very few of them...
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 21:14:08


master of desaster 
Level 64
Report
pushover i meant snow mountains MA. that one is great.
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 21:30:39


Pushover 
Level 59
Report
Properly added this time, but please also link a game using the template?
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 21:37:51


master of desaster 
Level 64
Report
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 22:43:23


timon92 
Level 62
Report
timon, if you are too lazy to search I'm sure that other people who don't know what you're talking about will also be too lazy to search. get off your ass if you want to see MA in WSOW lol.

Blitzkrieg season 2: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=2653
Blitzkrieg season 3: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=3616
Blitzkrieg season 4: http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?TournamentID=4541
Blitzkrieg season 5: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=11374

I could not find the first season.

This one is nice as well:
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=11416

Complete Fog - I don't view this as strategic. Can you prove me wrong with a provided template? Note that French Brawl uses a ligher fog setting.

I played a tournament with complete fog and it wasn't that bad:
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=8890
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/26/2016 23:41:49

An abandoned account
Level 56
Report
Ok, I just played a complete fog game (based off the current 1vs1 ladder template, but with the surveillance card added) and I think there's some potential there. I just need to modify the surveillance card settings and once I've found something that I think work, I'll ask 2 players who are much better at WarLight than me so they can point out the obvious flaws in the template that I'm too stupid to spot.
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/27/2016 00:17:28

Aste
Level 55
Report
I am interested in playing as well.
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/27/2016 00:36:01


Beren • apex 
Level 62
Report
Battle Islands MA is good too if you want an MA template. I think having one LD and one MA is a good idea. Diversity is a good thing, since there are so many different types of game modes in Warlight.

I appreciate that you're asking for template ideas, but I think you should choose them in the end, and not put it up for a vote. You are the one running the league after all.

Regarding points, I agree that the old scoring system rewarded doing very well in one or two tournaments too much, and that it should rather reward sustained success.

(I'm in for playing, btw.)
World Series of Warlight (WSOW) Season 3 Planning: 3/27/2016 01:11:07


Timinator 
Level 62
Report
I'll keep Turkey LD in consideration, I am still confused over where all this anti LD sentiment came from...? Though I'd like Timi to expand on what templates he thinks emphasizes pick luck too much and whether he thinks it's a template problem or a map problem.


Turkey LD has rather often a pretty dominant first pick. you can rarely get a good 2+3 to make up for losing your first pick, especially as LD usually favors clustering.
Posts 1 - 30 of 65   1  2  3  Next >>   

Contact | About WarLight | Play Risk Online | Multiplayer Strategy Game | Challenge Friends, Win Money | Skill Game | Terms of Service