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A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 03:49:00


Paugers
Level 41
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***This is a few notes I have for a speech backing Donald Trump, any thoughts or arguements against them? Just curious.

1. Why does the media hate Trump?
A. First of all, little known to the public is that 90% of popular media is owned by just 6, billion dollar companies.
B. But this doesn't answer why Trump would be the devil of all 6 does it? Well, let's explore a man called Carlos Slim who has large stakes in all of these and even owns the New York Times.
C. Slim was at one point the richest man in the world and is the richest man in Mexico. He owns much of the communication services in Mexico, a large portion of which are dependent on the billions of dollars sent home by Mexicans annually.
D. Needless to say, this billionaire feels slightly threatened by the presidential candidate and is using all his power to go against Trump. He and his companies have turned Trump into a devil in the eyes of most Americans by corrupting what he actually says and turning his own words against him. In addition to this they "donate" hundreds of thousands to political candidates against Trump.

2. Let's explore Trump and his opinion on immigration.
A. Now, probably Trump's most popular issue and one he's best known for because Carlos Slim wants you to know about it.
B. First of all, Trump's most famous quote in which he refers to all Mexicans as rapists first of all, is completely mislead by the media due to the fact that after stating that Mexico is letting rapists in, he states that there are good people amongst them to.
C. But when Donald mentions the rapists he is referring to a new statistic that 80% of women and girls from C. America immigrating to the U.S. are raped on the trip over. It's gotten to such a point that women actually take birth control prior to taking the trip.
D. In addition to this opinion on immigration, Trump also supports a better, more secure border on the Mexican border which despite what popular media tells you, again, Carlos Slim, it is completely possible to force Mexico to pay for the wall.
E. Simply because Mexico and certain billionaires in Mexico are dependent on the billions of dollars being sent back by the immigrants in America and the income from American companies using Latin American services. Refusing to build this wall would cause the Mexican economy to completely collapse.
F. In addition to this, even if Mexico refuses to build the wall it will only cost an estimated 8.1 billion dollars (the Obama Care website cost over 5 billion) and this is before it is considered that the man heading it is known for his ability to finish projects ahead of time and under the projected cost.
3. I'll be short and sweet on Trump's proposal involving Muslim Americans. I completely back his plan to ban Muslims until a better method is solved to determine if they are a danger or not. This is based on a poll that found that 1/4th of young Muslim Americans supported suicide bombings as a form of protest… 1/4 Muslim Americans.
4. I never understand why college students love how anti-establishment Bernie Sanders is, but hate how much Donald Trump is. They are both funding their campaigns without a super pact, both are completely free to act as they wish since they are unconnected to the whims of any corporate mongrel, something to think about.
Finally, you listen to the things this man says. What he truly says, not what the media tells you he says and you know this is a guy who absolutely believes in the American dream and wants to make America great again. And in a nation where 10 million young people under 25 are unemployed that sounds like just what we need. So this is why I support Trump, why I understand that his thoughts on immigration are completely justifiable, that Islam while a beautiful religion is potentially a threat to America and that you need to vote Trump. If not for yourself, to make America great once more.
A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 04:43:10


TeamGuns 
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First of all, people thing donald trump is the devil because of what he says. If the criticizing done by the media has done one thing is to help him. Without the media he wouldn't be as popular as he is.

Secondly, that's all really, read again the first point until you understand what I said.


For those who still think that this wall is a good idea, please watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU8dCYocuyI

And don't come and tell me that is biased, it isn't, John Oliver is one of the few, if not the only, person who has no restrictions on what to say or defend. Plus, his points are rock solid on this video, being defended by actual facts instead of usual bullshit you'll find coming out of trump's mouth.
A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 04:59:54


Paugers
Level 41
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"Unbiased"

*raking in that money from the views*

Negative views on Trump are popular, don't tell me some talk show host isn't biased because it's foolish to believe he's not just spouting junk some wroter or he came up with to attract a liberal like you to his show.
A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 05:08:55


chuck norris
Level 58
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They are both funding their campaigns without a super pact, both are completely free to act as they wish since they are unconnected to the whims of any corporate mongrel, something to think about.

donald trump is the corporate mongrel himself, he is a businessman instead of being funded by businessmen he is a businessman so instead of being influenced by these people whio only want money he is one of these people that only want money
A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 05:10:10


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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Did you actually watch the video? I've watched it after I posted it here, i'm not sure you've got enough time to watch it.


Btw, Oliver refused to talk about Trump for months, because he thought it wasn't worth of his time. He admited to have been forced to do it because of how trump got popular.

Btw no, he's free to say whatever he wants. Ofc you didn't watch any more videos from him, or even do your research. But he criticizes both the democrats and the republicans, and he made a cold declaration about what he thought Sanders would really be able to do for the US.

Also, I'm not a person that just listens to one side of the history. I've watched dozens of Trump speeches, and I regularly watch conservative/libertarian videos in youtube who have some quality on their content as well as real arguments.

So, I'm very qualified to say that this video reports stuff the way they are. Find me one thing there that he's just saying because he's a liberal and that a centrist or even conservative person couldn't say.

Oliver has been winning viewers from people all over the political spectrum because he can say whatever the fuck he wants, and a plus to it, he's not racist ;)
A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 08:27:25


Rogue Nikolai Krogius
Level 57
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1. Media loves Trump.

A. He has been amazing for their ratings and they give him more interviews than anybody else. They find him sensational and entertaining. They often tape entire speeches of his live and show nothing else for an hour. No other candidate (not even the democratic frontrunner) is given that kind of attention. Trump has been very good for their ratings and their wallets.

B. The Media has given Trump 1.8 billion dollars of free air time which boosts name recognition and set him up as the frontrunner. He wasn't suceeding because he resonated with voters. He was winning because he was the only guy the voters knew of. (and that there were 17 candidates).

C. New York Times love their fellow New Yorker Donald Trump. The only worse ones are Washington Post, Brietbart, and Drudge Report.

D. I do not entertain Conspiracy theories and I mandate that you provide evidence of this treachery. Aside from that Correlation does not imply Causation.

2. Immigration

A. It is his most popular issue because he wouldn't shut up about it for 3 months straight. Seriously, he talked about nothing but trade and immigration up until the Paris attacks.

B. Wrong. Look up the quote yourself. Trump said "Mexico is SENDING rapists and Murduers". He claimed that Mexican officials were using the United States as a dumping ground for their criminals. This is completely untrue as Mexico has their own border patrol (albiet low on funds) that attempts to attack the Cartel industry.

C. That news story is hardly "NEW" (came out in 2014) and women who are raped are not the same as rapists. As a matter of fact, they couldn't more different. I still contend that Donald had no idea what he was talking about when he make his announcement speech and that he never thought he would get this far.

D. Donald says he will simply raise the tarriffs if they don't pay. Then the wall will get build he says. What he isn't telling you is that Americans will have to pay a higher price for products made in all countries (including the USA) due to the nature of Austrian Economics. What donald wants to do is to bankrupt America on a wall that won't work.

E. The Wall won't work. They have and they will build tunnels to smuggle money, drugs and sex slaves under the wall. Boats have been used EXTENSIVELY to get across the border. Additionally, the "Mexican billionares" could just send one of their private jets to pick up the money at a drop off point. Wall doesn't work and it will fail horribly. But Donald doesn't care because it raises his poll numbers. He isn't looking out for the american people, he is looking out for his own popularity.

F. The only reason that Donald is able to build those projects is because he, in his own words, says he BRIBED THE POLITICIANS. He committed a felony and undermined American Federalism to make sure his buildings got built on time. What a selfish asshole.

G. So if Obama was bad enough wasting 5 billion on a useless project you want the next guy to be twice as incompetent and sure of himself? Ok. Fuck Logic.

3. Banning Muslims

A. Supreme Court would never allow such a thing to happen. Banning American Citizens from re entering the country? No way. Donald is making promises that he can't keep and lieing to his supporters. For a guy who "Tells it like it is" he can't help but feed the mob lies.

B. Muslims may support those bombings but they have a right to support whatever they please. We need to keep a close eye on the radicals but Americans don't hang people for their beliefs.

4. College Students are inherently progressives and liberals who hate anybody with an (R) next to their name. That is why they hate Donald Trump. They don't love Bernie cause he is anti establishment they love him cause they are gonna get free handouts and free college.

5. I have also listened to Trump speeches and I see a different Donald Trump. I see a 69 year old man with spray tan and dyed hair who can't seem to get one coherent thought out of that mouth before he is on the next issue. If anybody presses him on inconsistencies in his statements, or the fact you can just build a freaking TUNNEL under the wall, he immediately attacks back and rarely addresses the issue. These are Saul A. Linsky tactics and they are detestable in American politics. They are the tactics of Liberals. I watched on CNN during a town hall as he suddenly spent the first 15 seconds of his life thinking through the Abortion issue before saying "Women who have abortions must be punished". This is a man who hasn't thought through any of the issues on an ideological level and simply gets a pass on it because "He is a celebrity".
A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 11:54:44


Darth Darth Binks
Level 56
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C. That news story is hardly "NEW" (came out in 2014) and women who are raped are not the same as rapists. As a matter of fact, they couldn't more different. I still contend that Donald had no idea what he was talking about when he make his announcement speech and that he never thought he would get this far.

I don't believe he called women the rapists.

B. Wrong. Look up the quote yourself. Trump said "Mexico is SENDING rapists and Murduers".

Half right. He went on to say that they were coming from other countries, so we can assume he wasn't talking about an entire people, but illegal immigrants from all places.

A. Supreme Court would never allow such a thing to happen. Banning American Citizens from re entering the country? No way. Donald is making promises that he can't keep and lieing to his supporters. For a guy who "Tells it like it is" he can't help but feed the mob lies.

Instead of barring individuals, we can bar entire countries. It still won't work, but that's how he would go about it, assuming he would be allowed to do anything.

B. Muslims may support those bombings but they have a right to support whatever they please. We need to keep a close eye on the radicals but Americans don't hang people for their beliefs.

Easier said than done. Who are the radicals?
A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 13:50:17


TeamGuns 
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I'll agree with most that Rogue said, but one specific part really is weird:

They are the tactics of Liberals.


I'd hardly say this tactic can be narrowed to just one specific political group on the hole spectrum. I've watched many republican debates, and even just pretend that trump is the only one who does it is untrue as well. We can say that he does that the most ammoung the candidates, but not that it's a tactic exclusive to him.


@Darth Darth Binks

Rogue got your points down one by one. You just cherrypicked the ones you wanted to answer and even then, your answer wasn't really developed or was liberticide.


This hole trump defense post lacks any sense or logical arguments that are irrefutable made by those who support him. Please try harder next time...
A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 14:07:33


Min34 
Level 58
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it is completely possible to force Mexico to pay for the wall. Simply because Mexico and certain billionaires in Mexico are dependent on the billions of dollars being sent back by the immigrants in America and the income from American companies using Latin American services. Refusing to build this wall would cause the Mexican economy to completely collapse.


This is not how it works at all.

A. How is not building a wall going to stop the flow of money coming from America? Cause it seems unrelated.

B. American companies using Latin American services are not going to do jack shit to force Mexico to build that wall. They make tons of money by using those services, they have absolutely no reason to stop that and economically damage themselves. Trump can say what he wants, in the end it is the money that decides what happens.

You also don`t seem to be aware of Mexico`s situation. Their economy is huge. If the Mexican economy were to completely collapse the US would get a big blow as well. Mexico is within your top three of both export and import partners. No company is going to put the Mexican economy in danger, as it would hit them back in the face.
A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 14:21:28


GeneralPE
Level 56
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A. How is not building a wall going to stop the flow of money coming from America? Cause it seems unrelated.

B. American companies using Latin American services are not going to do jack shit to force Mexico to build that wall. They make tons of money by using those services, they have absolutely no reason to stop that and economically damage themselves. Trump can say what he wants, in the end it is the money that decides what happens.

The laws would make them.

But as we can see here, https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/pay-for-the-wall, remittances aren't the only way of raising funding for the wall. Tariffs, visa fees, and threatening to cancel visas are three other methods available to a President Trump.
A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 14:37:08


Min34 
Level 58
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The laws would make them.


Which laws exactly?
A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 14:40:21


Paugers
Level 41
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Which laws exactly?

Well, I don't know. Maybe, the laws President Trump will create?

And don't say congress won't approve them, they said the same thing to Obama.
A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 14:42:28


GeneralPE
Level 56
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This law, set out in that link:
"On day 1 promulgate a "proposed rule" (regulation) amending 31 CFR 130.121 to redefine applicable financial institutions to include money transfer companies like Western Union, and redefine "account" to include wire transfers. Also include in the proposed rule a requirement that no alien may wire money outside of the United States unless the alien first provides a document establishing his lawful presence in the United States."

It doesn't even require Congress.

Edited 4/19/2016 14:42:52
A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 14:43:54


Beren • apex 
Level 62
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Um, the president doesn't make laws...

And the past 6 years are as much proof as you could ever need that a president can't get laws passed if Congress doesn't want to cooperate.
A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 14:44:00


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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Right, because laws have sure as hell prevented billionaires and corporations to commit tax fraud, and because tariffs work so well on the post modern world, right?

Trump is gonna wreck the hole economy to make a wall that won't even fix the problems he says it will. Immigration won't get reduced, more then 50% of the illegals enter the country by using other means then the southern border, drugs also enter the US in a majority way by sea. And it's not like you can't just make a tunnel to do both eh?

The hole idea of building a wall is a non-sense in every possible way. Here's a short list of why building this wall is bullshit:
  • It won't stop illegals from entering the country
  • It won't prevent contraband
  • You piss off Mexican people
  • No way Mexico will pay for that wall, if you use your techniques you will damage your own economy
  • That wall will cost at least 25 billion dollars, probably more. And even if you manage to make mexico pay for it, which I doubt you will, it still will recquire the same ammount of money over 7 years just to keep it on place.


  • Edited 4/19/2016 14:44:59
    A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 14:48:50


    GeneralPE
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    Um, the president doesn't make laws...

    And the past 6 years are as much proof as you could ever need that a president can't get laws passed if Congress doesn't want to cooperate.

    Read my comment word-by-word, then get back to me.
    A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 14:50:54


    Min34 
    Level 58
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    This law, set out in that link:
    "On day 1 promulgate a "proposed rule" (regulation) amending 31 CFR 130.121 to redefine applicable financial institutions to include money transfer companies like Western Union, and redefine "account" to include wire transfers. Also include in the proposed rule a requirement that no alien may wire money outside of the United States unless the alien first provides a document establishing his lawful presence in the United States."


    In other words there is no law that can force Mexico to build a wall. There are laws that make it possible to put more pressure on Mexico.
    A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 15:16:27


    Darth Darth Binks
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    Rogue got your points down one by one. You just cherrypicked the ones you wanted to answer and even then, your answer wasn't really developed or was liberticide.

    I'm just going to assume that Rogue wishes for you to speak on his behalf.

    Rogue did not get my points down one by one. I responded to a couple of his points that were incomplete, didn't make sense, or were uninformed. Those that I didn't touch were points I felt no need to refute or question.

    This hole trump defense post lacks any sense or logical arguments that are irrefutable made by those who support him. Please try harder next time...

    When you say "whole," I am unsure whether you refer to Paugers' original post, or if you include my comment, as well. If you are referring to my comment when you say this, then you are mistaken when you think I am defending Donald Trump. I was correcting a half-true/incomplete statement, posing a counterpoint, and asking a question. My "cherrypicking" was a result of not seeing any need to correct anything else.

    If you are wondering why I didn't go out of my way to correct anyone else, 1) Rogue did it for me, for the most part, and 2) I'm at school, doing things.

    Edited 4/19/2016 15:16:45
    A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 15:48:00


    TeamGuns 
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    I was talking about Paugers OP there.

    If you're at school you shouldn't be here too, go back to work! I can be here all-day long because I have nothing to do of on my life until september if not playing videogames and get drunk with my friends.
    A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 16:28:06


    OxTheAutist 
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    why do people obsess over Trump so much when he doesn't have the support to win? Even Killary can beat him.
    A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 18:21:57


    GeneralPE
    Level 56
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    @Ox
    Hillary doesn't stand a chance, even if she doesn't get arrested.

    In other words there is no law that can force Mexico to build a wall. There are laws that make it possible to put more pressure on Mexico.

    *Sighs* That law was in response to you saying,
    American companies using Latin American services are not going to do jack shit to force Mexico to build that wall. They make tons of money by using those services, they have absolutely no reason to stop that and economically damage themselves.
    It was in no way meant to say that there is a law that makes Mexico be our bitch.
    A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 18:43:31


    Beren • apex 
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    It won't stop illegals from entering the country

    It won't prevent contraband


    Could someone who believes the wall is a good idea make some effort to rebut these points?

    Given that most illegal immigrants did not pass out southern border illegally, and the wall wouldn't be able to prevent contraband from getting in, what's the point of building it?

    Edited 4/19/2016 18:43:53
    A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 19:02:11


    Paugers
    Level 41
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    I won the debate :D
    A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 19:07:59


    TeamGuns 
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    ^I think I hardly saw someone get so much destroyed on a forum thread since GeneralPE's conspiration theory about the spanish government trying to convert kids into islamism.

    Edited 4/19/2016 19:08:25
    A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 19:30:03


    GeneralPE
    Level 56
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    Yeah, that was a pretty wacky conspiration theory.
    A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 19:57:44


    Darth Darth Binks
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    Hillary doesn't stand a chance, even if she doesn't get arrested.

    I guarantee you that Hillary Clinton is winning. Let's make it interesting. If Hillary Clinton wins, You have to use my profile picture for a whole month. If She doesn't win, I will use yours for a whole month.
    A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 19:59:32


    TeamGuns 
    Level 58
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    If Bernie or Cruz win, you should both use a picture of a poop.
    A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 20:08:46


    Жұқтыру
    Level 55
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    why do people obsess over Trump so much when he doesn't have the support to win? Even Killary can beat him.


    Trump is the most liked Republican, and though more forecasts put Democrats winning over Republicans in most 1ag1s, he's still pretty weighty.
    A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 20:16:49


    TeamGuns 
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    The republicans will lose if any candidate but kasich gets nominated. Cruz and Trump are hated by moderates and a lots of independents, that are badly needed to win the election.

    Edited 4/19/2016 22:27:01
    A few thoughts on Trump.: 4/19/2016 20:34:31


    GeneralPE
    Level 56
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    Cruz and Trump are hated by moderates and a lot of independents, that are badly needed to win the election.

    That's where you're wrong. Trump has the most crossover appeal of any Republican candidate since Reagan. And while he loses some party members, he can still win the staunch conservative/Republican states over Hillary. Then, his appeal to independents and Democrats can allow him to win states a traditional conservative wouldn't have a chance in.

    @DDB
    Only if Trump is the nominee; Hillary can beat the rest
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