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trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 14:40:33


GiantFrog
Level 58
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In this thread i want to show you how to use diffrent options in a way you maybe didnt think of before.
The Threads goal is to improve the details of your gameplay, not strategy itself.

Its not about picking and also not about using order prio to get first order / trans only to not run into a stack/ attc only to keep a small enemy stack out of your bonus/ move order/deploy order.

Feel free to add something.
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 14:41:16


GiantFrog
Level 58
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1. Timinator blockade:

Situation: You want to place a blockade of size x in a territory which borders an enemy,
where the size is independent
(as long as there is at least x armies left on your territory) of enemy attcs.

Solution: Sent x armies with "transfer only" into your enemies territory,
sent the remaining armies to another territory last order
(obviously you have to outdelay your enemy)

game: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=8878638



Edited 4/26/2016 14:44:34
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 14:41:57


GiantFrog
Level 58
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2. "optimal" blockade:

Generally diffrent situations require diffrent solutions,
for example a blockade of size x may be the correct size if the enemy didnt attc,
but looks like a bit of a waste if he did, as his stack isnt as big anymore.

Situation: You want to place a blockade of size z1 in case your enemy did not attc
and size z2 in case he did attc.

z1:= #armies you want to blockade if your enemy did not attc
z2:= #armies you want to bloackde if your enemy did attc
a := #attcers (enemy) in case he attcs
d := #defenders(yours)
f := #armies you "transfer only" to your enemy
p := (%armies you transfer away)/100


A Blockade that reacts to your enemy already existed by using percentage on its own,
but its not nearly as effective.
This one allows you to adjust the size of the blockade to any integer z1 in [z2,d] 
in case your enemy didnt attc
and any integer z2 in [1,z1] in case he did attc (you choose both integers as you want them,
and with the correct f and p the blockade will be as big as you wanted it in both cases)


we do know the values of z1,z2,a,d and we search for f and p.

I    z1= d-p*(d-f-1)
II   z2= d-0.6a-p*(d-0.6a-f-1)

solve II for p => p=(z2+0.6a-d)/(-d+0.6a+f+1)

put that into I => z1= d-((z2+0.6a-d)/(-d+0.6a+f+1))*(d-f-1)

solve for f => f = ( a( 3z1-3 )+( 5-5d )z1+( 5d-5 )z2 )/( 3a-5z1+5z2) 

(a few things should be =/= 0 here, so this is a defined term, we dont care for that)

so now with f we can calulate p (p and f were what we searched for)
and we can now make the orders in a way that will result in what we wanted.

Of course p and f most likly wont be integers, deal with it (round them)

Solution: Calculate f and p as shown, transfer only f armies into your enemies territory,
move away a percentage of p*100 with your very last order.
(again, you will have to outdelay your opponent)

game: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=11038333

Same Situation as in Timis game,
but this time we want to blockade 7 armies in case the enemy didnt attc, and 5 armies in case he attaced.

f =  ( a( 3z1-3 )+( 5-5d ) z1+( 5d-5 ) z2 )/( 3a-5 z1+5z2)  = (39(3*7-3)+(5-5*31 )*7+(5*31-5 )*5)/(3*39-5*7+5*5) ~ 3.75 ~ 4

p=(z2+0.6a-d)/(-d+0.6a+f+1) = (5+0.6*39-31)/(-31+0.6*39+3.75+1) ~ 0.91




Edited 4/28/2016 17:51:43
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 14:42:41


GiantFrog
Level 58
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3. safety attc

This one is pretty basic,
but i decided to still include it here as for some reason ppl wont do it.

Situation: WR settings, you take your bonus with 3v2s
while having a Stack of armies boardering the territory
that you are trying to take in a risky way.
You dont want to do 4v2 as you want to keep your stack as big as possible.

Solution:  Attc only 2 armies from the stack to the territoy you were trying
to take with 3 armies to be sure you take it.

game: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=7926274 turn5



Edited 4/26/2016 14:46:19
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 14:43:07


GiantFrog
Level 58
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4. order prio to have 2 successive attcs (+ order prio as delay)

Situation: Random move order.
You fear your enemy could make his order inbetween 2 of your orders,
which were supposed to be successive.

Solution: Use order prio to have knowlede about the move order
and have your succesive orders on order(z) and order(z+1) with z being an even integer.

game: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=10670288 Turn 7

I feared running into a stack of his and get counterattced immediatly after it,
which may have lead to him breaking my bonus.
With both attcs of mine being successive there is no chance for him to break my bonus.
(i do realize he played order prio aswell,
chances i have first order still increase when playing prio against his prio)

note: knowing who has first turn also gives you knowledge
on who gets last order in a "delay war" if both have the same amout of delays,
so it may be worth it to use order prio to outdelay your opponent.



Edited 4/26/2016 16:43:27
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 14:43:40


GiantFrog
Level 58
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5. Exaclty one attc of one army.

Situation: You want to lower yours and your enemies stack by exactly one army, meaning,
in case he doenst attc, you want to attc with 1 army and in case he does attc with 1 army,
you dont want to attac anymore

Solution: After the enemy potentially attaced you with 1 army,
you mark all the armies in your stack,
except for 1 army, by using attc only into a friendly territory.
You attc with the one remaining army.


game: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=11038505  Turn 5

In this game, if no attc of 1 army happend at all,
i would have attaced with 39 armies,
killing 1 armie less then attcing with 38 + 1 armies, so i dont want to attc with 39 armies.
(meaning: if he didnt attc with 1 army, i want to do so)
if 2 attcs of 1 army happen, i would still kill the same amount of enemy armies,
but i would lose 1 more army in the process,
so i dont want to attc with 1 + 37
(1 + 37 obviously doesnt kill as much as 1 + 38, but he lost 1 army attacing me)
(meaning: if he attcs with 1 army, i dont want to do so.)

game is obviously staged so i know there is better moves to do here,
i just wanted to show the mechanics.



Edited 4/28/2016 16:27:06
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 14:44:09


GiantFrog
Level 58
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6. gift your enemy:

This one maybe doesnt fully belong here,
as its not really an explanation of how to do things correctly and more of an
"out of the box"-option you may think about at some point.

Situation: Team game. you occupied one territory in your enemys bonus.
Unluckily you face elemination from that area next turn
(maybe because you are in a dead end of the bonus (like Taiwan on MME)
or he has first order next turn and you dont have enough armies to hold
(or you have to spent them somewhere else))

Solution: gift that territory to your enemy,
but gift it to the one that is not owner of the other territories in that bonus,
so the bonus wont give income to the enemy for at least one more turn.

game: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9817160 last turn. thanks beren for sending this one.
      https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5811995 turn 11. thanks to min34
      https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=10703657 turn 6. no bonus broken,
      but therefore an enemy gets eleminated. thanks to lagwagon.

Obviously this one could easily be counterd by "treat your teammates as enemies" option,
but i ve never seen someone use it when he s not attacing a teammate.
Maybe thats the real advise here,
click that option whenever you feel it could be worth it for your enemy to try this one.



Edited 4/26/2016 23:47:55
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 15:07:45


Buns157 
Level 66
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Nice guide, explains a lot of the obscure moves players don't normally use.

Though for point 5, shouldn't it be turn 5/6 or have I missed something?
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 15:09:08


GiantFrog
Level 58
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yes, its turn 5, corrected it :) thanks
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 15:43:26

smileyleg 
Level 61
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I successfully used #6 (didn't know anyone had ever thought about it before) once over a year ago in a local deployment 3v3 RoR game. It prevented the enemy from completing a bonus on the front.

I was inordinately happy about it.
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 15:46:26


Beren • apex 
Level 62
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Yeah I felt really good about gifting my opponent there :p
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 15:50:58


Min34 
Level 58
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used #6 before, it is accually really helpful. You can also gift your enemy in a MA game to stop his movement.
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 15:52:15


GiantFrog
Level 58
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@smileyleg, min34

i aswell would have guessed nobody ever used it, but seemingly #6 has been pulled of a good amout of times as we already found 3 ppl within a few minutues ;) if you want your games to be added feel free to sent the link. i d surely enjoy some more of those.
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 16:24:23


GeneralPE
Level 56
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@Min34
Didn't think about that. Could be really useful. Thx
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 16:44:14


ps 
Level 59
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tl;dr you should make sure you have enough armies in a blockade left for it to hold and not be a waste of your armies.
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 16:52:10


Min34 
Level 58
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https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=5811995 For #6 turn 11.

I can look if I have any other good examples for the guide, but don`t expect to much :p
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 16:54:27


GiantFrog
Level 58
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tl;dr you should make sure you have enough armies in a blockade left for it to hold and not be a waste of your armies.

you got the point.
But the size needed for the blockade to hold depends on how much armies the enemy has boardering to it.
When going for the same size in both situations you will end up with a waste of your armies (or a blockade that is not big enough)
So you understand the problem, and thats how you solve it.


@min, looks good, i will add it :)

Edited 4/26/2016 17:01:42
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 17:52:32


knyte 
Level 58
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#6 is actually well-documented; it pops up as "dirty gifting" in the M'Hunters guide. I think Krzychu (or Rudii) used it against me in a 2v2 ladder game.
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 18:00:58


Angry Frog
Level 7
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Hello brother.
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 18:10:51


Timinator 
Level 62
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Obviously this one could easily be counterd by "treat your teammates as enemies" option,
but i ve never seen someone use it when he s not attacing a teammate.


I usually turn attack teammates true when i know opponents still have their giftcard and might try to delay the bonus (or whatever) for a turn.
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 18:28:59


PanagiotisTheGreekFreak
Level 61
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About point 1,why to send armies with transfer only(Also at which turn it happens?)
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 19:08:32


Timinator 
Level 62
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Read the gamechat in the linked game :)
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 19:10:54


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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What about the piggy blockade, where you actively try to find a way to use your blockade card within the first 5 turns of the game? I always thought that move was pretty clever.
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 19:26:33

TinyToad
Level 46
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What about the piggy blockade, where you actively try to find a way to use your blockade card within the first 5 turns of the game? I always thought that move was pretty clever.


as mentioned in the first post, this thread is not supposed to be a discussion of strategies.
the examples given in the first 6 posts arent supposed to be strategies, but dominant ways of executing a certain order (except for #6 as its easely countered by "treat your teammates as enemies" and #1 as the timinator blockade is dominated by the "optimal" blockade, but i felt i d still mention it as in a real time game its porbably the safer way to go.)
These arent strategies you may choose, they show the way you >should< execute your orders in certain situations.

Edited 4/26/2016 19:27:18
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 22:24:08

Mike
Level 57
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I dont understand point 1. First of all Timi has no orders then about 10th order his first order comes : plays an OD card. Shouldnt that be displayed before opponent's 2nd move ?

Also it looks like it worked because he used the blocade after opponent attack, so OD was enough, what the transfer only brings more ?

And lastly how the transfer only to SA didnt work ? It failed to transfer 23 but why didnt it send the 6 remaining ?

Edited 4/26/2016 22:24:44
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 22:55:13


Kenny • apex 
Level 59
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Mike, you just pointed out the entire point of the Timi blockade. He sent 7 armies transfer only to Mexico, an order than can never be executed because he cannot own Mexico. Since those 7 armies have been used in an order, it cannot send 7 armies back to South America. Had Timi had 10 transferable armies, 7 would stay and 3 would move out. In this example, Timi was exactly right on the amount he had to save, so the 2nd order didn't happen.
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 23:30:02


Lagwagon
Level 59
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#6 I use it often on no split games. this is my favorite eventhough my team lost beacuse i played bad after it.

turn 6:
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=10703657
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 23:45:49


GiantFrog
Level 58
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@lagwagon

that one is beautiful, has to be added :)
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/26/2016 23:51:46


Lagwagon
Level 59
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thanks =) i had been thinking about that move for a long time but that kind of scenario doesnt come up often.

Edited 4/26/2016 23:53:11
trans only, attc only, percentage, cards: 4/27/2016 07:21:59


Timinator 
Level 62
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Mike, you should re-read how OD-card works :)
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