Play
Multi-Player
Coins
Community
Settings
Help
Community   Maps   Forum   Mail   Tournaments   Ladders   Clans   Recent Games
Sign In | Sign Up
<< Back to General Forum   

Posts 1 - 30 of 37   1  2  Next >>   
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 14:45:36


Pooncrew 
Level 60
Report
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic? The whole point of a teammate is to aid you. No?
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 14:54:13


QueefBalls
Level 59
Report
I just want to add on to this a bit. In a team game, without airlift cards, your teammate can't really get you out of a jam unless they border you. and even then, you'll have to transfer those troops all the way up to your front lines. I don't really see why any team game should be played without airlift cards quite frankly.

But they're also necessary for most 1v1 games. For example, if you take out an enemy in one corner of the map, but also have a front to defend in another corner of the map, the troops you have leftover from the first battle are completely useless until you can pass them up enough, which may take 7-8 turns, maybe more. At that point you might as well be playing local deployment.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 14:56:41


Veloces
Level 55
Report
The inconvience is part of the strategy so you could lure an opponents stack somewhere useless to get the edge. In team games that's what gift cards are for. The fact that airlift cards take priority over anything else makes them alittle overpowered for everyday strategic games.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 14:58:24


master of desaster 
Level 65
Report
They are considered unstrategic cause they happen before your turn. Just like abandon or bomb card, it's often just a gamble to guess where the opponent will deploy his armies and the right use of that card can easily change the outcome of a game singlehandly.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 15:05:21


Cata Cauda
Level 58
Report
Have to agree here. They happen before all other attacks, like the abandon card. Thats why, for exmaple, the blockade card is considered as "strategic" because you take a huge risk if you dont play it correctly. While with an airlift card you cant do much wrong.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 15:06:09


QueefBalls
Level 59
Report
But isn't that part of the strategy? Taking into account the risk that the territory you attack might have a bigger stack than you expect? It's the same as a player stockpiling reinforcement cards really. Plus it's not like only one player has airlift cards, the attacking player could also lift to his strong territories to make them even stronger.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 15:10:23


QueefBalls
Level 59
Report
I also just want to clarify that I'm of the belief that no 1 template is more strategic than another. For example, I don't actually think fog is more strategic than no fog. For example, with normal fog, some might argue that your attacks come with a risk that an opponent might beat you to a territory with a larger stack, or that you never know when you're gonna run into someone else. However, I'd counter that with the fact that when there's no fog, there's nowhere to hide, and your opponent can see your every move and adjust their strategy accordingly. In short, I believe that all templates are equally strategic, the strategy for each is a little bit different. Just my 2 cents.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 15:13:11


TeamGuns 
Level 59
Report
If airlifts happened after the turn they'd be strategic, but before it's just too OP.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 15:18:08


master of desaster 
Level 65
Report
You can always claim that making good predictions is strategic. But if you look at how good those 3 cards i mentioned are, then there it is always kind of tic tac toe. Not a great value of strategy imo
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 15:29:50


Pooncrew 
Level 60
Report
I have to agree with queef on this one.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 16:54:58


QueefBalls
Level 59
Report
Nice to see someone else on here is sensible
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 17:25:55


҈ TeeMee123 ҈
Level 48
Report
says someone from the pooncrew
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 17:33:24


QueefBalls
Level 59
Report
*Poon Squad. Pooncrew is a player's name
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 17:36:56

smileyleg 
Level 61
Report
I could see airlifts adding to the strategic value in some templates if they are exceedingly rare (one per game maybe). Then it's a big deal about when you use it for maximum benefit.

The problem with airlifts is pretty simple though:
1 - If the player with higher income/position wins inevitably, there's not much strategy, it's just an expansion race
2 - To win when behind in income/position you need to deploy and move your armies better than your opponent

Airlifts make point 2 irrelevant, because you can just airlift your armies where you need them.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 17:47:44

M. Poireau
Level 55
Report
I agree that common Airlifts reduce the strategy of the game.

An Airlift which happens *after* all attacks (and therefore fails if the territory is lost) would be an improvement, I'd say.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 17:49:03


GeneralPE
Level 56
Report
@M. Poireau
Make it a different card. I like it.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 17:52:12

M. Poireau
Level 55
Report
Feline,

No, not WS specifically. It's just what smileyleg said earlier:

Consider that a game with an infinite number of Airlift cards is essentially a game where you get to redeploy your full income every single turn.

You never have to worry about how many armies to deploy in different parts of the map, how many to allocate to expansion, how many leftovers you will have after taking a bonus...

Essentially, with infinite Airlifts, the geography of the map almost disappears (except where you border your enemy), giving the player with higher income a huge advantage.

Basically, you don't have to plan ahead as much or think as hard. Not game-breaking, but I agree that it's not the most "strategic" feature.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 17:54:06

M. Poireau
Level 55
Report
(Would love to hear why you think there aren't enough Airlifts in WS - we've never run out yet, even after almost a full tournament of games. What new strategy does it create?)

(As an example, with fewer/none Airlifts, you could try to trap enemy armies in a corner with a Blockade. That would be quite a clever and effective maneuver! But because Airlift cards are plentiful, that strategy is no longer possible.)
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 18:28:31


Zephyrum 
Level 60
Report
Weighted Random is considered strategic, therefore, so is Lottery, duh!
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 19:05:39


QueefBalls
Level 59
Report
Sorry Semice when I typed that I should have said that lottery games are the exception to my belief.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 20:37:37


Жұқтыру
Level 55
Report
I don't get the arguments here, yes, it gets priority, so? It doesn't cancel out any moves, and you still have to think about where to send it, where your foe will attack, and when to wield it.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 21:36:01

smileyleg 
Level 61
Report
@Feline: I'd say there's way too many airlifts right now.

Easy airlifts make it just too easy to maintain an advantage.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/3/2016 22:11:57

Hasdrubal
Level 58
Report
IMHO, airlift should be done different than what is in this game rule. Someone mentioned that they should be used as last card in a turn, which makes more sense.

Also, neither game should have both AL (like it is used in WL) and EBC.

There are another possibilities, which make it as strategic move:

1. Airlift starts as first order (before any moves or attacks) in the way that starting territory lose airlifted units, and they are temporarily put in buffer. Next turn they land on target location as LAST order (like blockade card, or gift card). If target location is not in friendly hands they land on starting location, BUT, if the starting location is lost, then AL card is wasted, and all armies in the process are eliminated. Therefore if someone AL units, there will be try, by opposition, to catch and eliminate both starting end ending location, or both must be secured by user.

2. Airlift starts as first order, removes armies from starting location, and finish as last order during the same turn, posting armies on landing location, and if it is not in friendly hands, the rule is the same as in #1.

3. Airlifts are used to transfer between connected lands (there must be undistrupted connection between starting location and ending location) otherwise it should not be possible to be used. So, big stacks on one location cannot be useful on another location if opposition holds interconnection.

4. Airlifts can be used to transfer only limited ammount of units, equal to part of income, or multiplication of ending location bonus.

5. Airlift card is used to "bank" units, so they are added to first reinforcement card that can be used from next turn, save to way they are usually used. Thus, units that are AL can be again on the map in later turns, if ever (if no reinforcement card is obtained, they will not be back). For this option, maybe it is better to have another card, but this can be useful, too.

I think that all of these 5 thesis can add strategic momentum to AL cards, if not the solution to use them as last order.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/4/2016 19:00:26

Vodyak
Level 56
Report
Airlift card isn't strategic in itself because of its priority,so you can make a heavy defence which pretty much can screw up a game and it's not a strategy unless you can do a heavy attack on opponent who is doing a defense by airlift by directly attacking by airlift which is prohibited by airlift's since it is transfer only.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/4/2016 19:01:51

Vodyak
Level 56
Report
No game is strategic unless you give your opponent a fair chance in countering your own strategy.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/4/2016 19:13:39


Genghis 
Level 54
Report
Technically they are Foresight and Management moves, which makes them technically strategic. So they could be called strategic yes. Anyone who says otherwise is just an elitist.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/4/2016 19:39:05


Buns157 
Level 67
Report
It's just an OP emergency blockade.

Your opponent has a stack against you, and he will break/eliminate you from the area if he attacks. He knows you or your team have an airlift card and that they can send enough troops in the airlift so you come out worse from attacking.

This just makes it a guessing game to if they will use their airlift card then, or some other time.

Also airlift cards can lower the skill needed to pick in team games sometimes, since then you just need coverage from the team, not individual coverage from each member of the team.


Tldr: Airlift cards suck imo

Edited 5/4/2016 19:39:33
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/4/2016 20:41:38


Жұқтыру
Level 55
Report
It's just an OP emergency blockade.


It doesn't have to be OP, just depends on the settings of the game, how often you'll get the card. And furthermore, if both sides have it, can anything be OP?
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/4/2016 21:22:06

graemes
Level 57
Report
And furthermore, if both sides have it, can anything be OP?

If the result of the game depends partly on prediction and guessing, the game can be fun and it can even be better because of the possibilities presented by bluffing and feinting. Warlight is a great example of this, as is poker.

If the result of the game depends entirely on prediction and guessing, the game will invariably not be fun. Rock-Paper-Scissors is a great example, as are PKs in soccer (just ask the Dutch!).

Airlift cards are ridiculous overpowered to the point that a well-played (read: lucky) Airlift card can completely decide the game, making the rest of the game irrelevant. That isn't fun. That's just an elaborate way to play Rock-Paper-Scissors.

And yes, if both sides have access to OP strategies (dynamite in Rock-Paper-Scissors, basic calculation skills in Tic-Tac-Toe) the game stops being fun. Video games nerf or altogether remove OP strategies from the game routinely to improve the quality of the game.
Why aren't airlift cards considered strategic?: 5/4/2016 21:33:42


Жұқтыру
Level 55
Report
Airlift card can completely decide the game, making the rest of the game irrelevant. That isn't fun. That's just an elaborate way to play Rock-Paper-Scissors.


So can more common "lucky" cards, and this is just for me, but I always have some kind of backup plan (or try to) just in case something goes unexpectedly bad for me (in games that it can go unexpectedly bad), and I think building these backup plans is part of the fun.
Posts 1 - 30 of 37   1  2  Next >>   

Contact | About WarLight | Play Risk Online | Multiplayer Strategy Game | Skill Game | Terms of Service