He did eventually get annoyed and snap out of his trolling, so in the end he's the one who got trolled.

...you have to be one of the worst trolls ever. "haha, you trolled me, but I knew you were a troll, so really i was trolling you!"

Edited 5/11/2016 20:56:24

it seems Fizztler finally deleted the other thread about religion... Why this censorship?

Trollception

...or something

...you have to be one of the worst trolls ever. "haha, you trolled me, but I knew you were a troll, so really i was trolling you!"

I never said I was a troll.

No government can give non-biased education. Public compulsory education was founded with the premise of indoctrination and has stuck with it since then, don't act like it's something free of propaganda in West Europe, especially when indoctrinating mandatory learning came from Berlin.

Neh, we don't really get indoctrinated at school. In my school (that works using the french system btw), teachers could be fired if they expressed religious or political views they had in school. The major indocrination problem in schools come from history and geography learning; but our manuals were pretty neutral when it came to it, as were our teachers.


Example of our books+teachers classes:
- Western belief is that the US saved europe from the nazis. Our books and teachers showed that the most important ally in the war were the russians, and not the americans.
- The vichy regime (implemented by the nazis in France), is also widely criticized for being racist and antisemite. Gosh, our books even criticized the history manipulation made by the french gvt for decades to cover up this regime and try to make it sound better.
- French real and covered colonialism (after the decolonization) is also blamed for the Africa being economically backwards until today.


I have to say I got a good school, and I will point out that the knowlage they gave me was hardly a biased one. Mandatory learning isn't bad, as long as the learning itself is good.

Edited 5/12/2016 03:00:03

The French schools are still based on the Prussian model, which was made to craft children into good soldiers and citizens, and to kill critical thinking.
Mandatory education is inherently bad, you are violating folk's property rights and other freedoms.

Edited 5/12/2016 03:12:39

The vichy regime (implemented by the nazis in France), is also widely criticized for being racist and antisemite. Gosh, our books even criticized the history manipulation made by the french gvt for decades to cover up this regime and try to make it sound better.

Well, it obviously part of the fascist club, but it should not be forgotten about its good sides, too, as well as Hitler. A truth often hidden in the past, Hitler gave 99% his income as Leader to the German Hurt Worker's Fund (basically gives some money to Germans disabled from a hurt in the worksite until the wound heals, or another job is found).

The French schools are still based on the Prussian model, which was made to craft children into good soldiers and citizens, and to kill critical thinking.

While a critic thinking lack is very big in farwest Europe/America, I don't think any country that doesn't have a draft will train them to be soldiers - they just don't need them to be soldiers and can spend time training them to be helpful in some other way.

Mandatory education is inherently bad, you are violating folk's property rights and other freedoms.

You could argue that the nuclear family is a kind of serfdom. But it was chosen that children have free teaching as a right, and that they are not smart enough to know what's best for them until grownuphood.

An example of my own:

I didn't get much formal schooling in my life. But it must have been pretty good teaching. In a village in Kazakhstan, we learned a good amount of the sciences, focalising on them, putting English, grammars, and the past as secondary. In particular, I recall one day in which we learned about atoms, the basic build of them. This was not long after we looked upon electricity and magnetism.

- The atom is made of three bits: protons, neutrons, and electrons.
- Protons have a positive electric charge, neutrons have none, and electrons have a negative electric charge.
- Protons and neutrons are smushed together in a big, well, actually tiny wad, and this wad is called a core - and protons and neutrons can both be called corons.
- Meantime, the electron basically is hanging about the wad (core), though it never joins it.

Then, the class asks

-Why don't the electrons come together with the protons in the wad? Opposites charges pull each other?
-*goes on to explain the four fundamental forces*

I went to Fryslân much later, along with a committee programme. As part of the programme, we toured a public school, and I saw basically the same thing being taught, but to older students, and more babied down (electrons "spin" about the core). The teacher there said "electrons have negative electric charge, while protons have positive", and then in that next sentence, she said that electrons and protons will never meet. And no wonder, no curiosity, why opposite charges are not attracting here? I later checked, these students had been taught about magnetism...so this really baffled me, and it seemed like this was regular in Holland, hardly anyone was baffled but me.

Edited 5/12/2016 03:50:08

Well there is no free teaching and there never will be. Currently the government uses extorted and printed money to fund it , and it is far more expensive than before public mandatory schooling.

Education isn't endoctrination when it's a good one.

1. Indoctrination*
2. Yes it is
3. Define good education

Indoctrination*

Frankly, this is a wrong, backstabber word to begin with. Is there outdoctorination? Well, then I saw no real grounds why it should be "indoctorination". Now, a true fellow would wield "brainwashing", "mould", and "drill".

Frankly, this is a wrong, backstabber word to begin with. Is there outdoctorination? Well, then I saw no real grounds why it should be "indoctorination". Now, a true fellow would wield "brainwashing", "mould", and "drill".

It's not called a "Backstabber word" (lol?), but a "Unpaired word". They're fairly common in english, for example Disgruntled, Consequence, Reckless as just a few. They normally come about when the antonym falls out of common usage.

Well, I don't really have any grudge against "unpaired" (better word would be "one-off") words, but I do not like any ungermanic words in a Germanic tongue - if you want to speak French, speak French (but don't use any Germanic words there, then).

Blame the Normans!!(jk, its basically English modernizing for the most part, and realizing that we don't a million synonyms and antonyms, so certain words survived while others died, as such the number of words in the commonly used English, even when incorporating differences between dialects, has in fact been reduced)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_purism_in_English

I'm a big fan. Take out French words, and keep them when you'll speak French (although, some, like develop (from developper) are also bad to wield, since they at root come from not an Italic tongue.)

Education isn't endoctrination when it's a good one.

1. Indoctrination*
2. Yes it is
3. Define good education

1. Em, I got it right 2 out of 3 times. But anyways, sorry, sometimes my languages mix up, I barely can keep up with all the grammar rules in the language I learned first, it won't happen with the other ones... Seriously, me english isn't that bad?

2. I don't think my education was indoctrinated at all. My teachers had their views on stuff, they kept it to themselves and teached us a non-biased content. I only knew their political stances off talking with them outside the school, and sometimes it really surprised me.

3. I got a good education, I have a good science, political and litterature level. Even though it wasn't all learned in school (my formation was actually science focused), I doubt I would've learn that much without it.


For me a good school education will teach us the base in every field, and then offer a specialization for whatever you feel more into, will try to keep itself neutral when it comes to religion/politics, teach you to have a critic spirit and will teach you stuff needed in life.

My school did the first 4, the last one is the only thing it didn't teached, and to be frank none does, that should've been things like: how to fill taxes, how to cook, how to rent an appartement, how to deal with stress and how to apply for a job. Sadly all of these I needed (and still need) to learn now.

If a school teached the 5 fields I said were important, we would have functional adults comming off school, and not the teen pseudo-morons we see everyday claiming to be adults.

G O T O S L E E P

got os leep?

I got a good education, I have a good science, political and litterature level.

Frankly, science (and the maths needed), writing, and health are the only really handy things to know and to read in, although a science is something better followed through. But writing and health will help you throughout the list of your life, and are very needed skills. The past, earthdrawing, books, polit, that's more or less footy. But health and writing are musts.