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Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 18:55:52


knyte 
Level 58
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Reports seemingly went ignored about a week ago, so I'm assuming it was a mistake and posting here

A player is operating multiple accounts that are both actively competing on the 1 v 1 Ladder.

Account 1: AI in M'Hunters (https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=6561482549)
Account 2: Niklas Reißmann, apparently removed from CORP after they discovered this (https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=2833912766)

Evidence that they're the same person:

1. In-game admission

Context: Niklas and I had a lot of common 1v1 games long ago when he was active on his main account. I wanted to continue the series, so I created new games against him on vitriol (my alt) and invited his active account (AI) since the Niklas account was inactive and non-responsive.

Old games (not relevant to the alt issue, just provided for context):

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=8107459

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=8688014

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=8721297

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=8897197

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=8911590

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=8945516

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=8963522

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=8982153

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=8984250

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9000719

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9008222

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9011208

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9015621

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9015709

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=9063002

New games (all titled "1v1 rematch? (now on our alts :P)"):

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=10883709

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=10887307

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=10892017

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=10895497

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=10901870

Chat from the first of these new games:



2. In-mail admission

To OxTheArtist:



To me:





(Context: I'd brought this up on a public thread where I'd noticed someone run into Niklas *and* AI on the 1v1 ladder; this was AI/Niklas's response)

3. Profile similarities:

AI's play speed:


Niklas's play speed:


For obvious reasons, this isn't the strongest point (or a very necessary one, given that Niklas admits it himself). However, real-time play speed is one somewhat useful way to check whether someone's an alt.

For example, here's my 3 accounts:

knyte:



vitriol:



propulsion:



And in contrast, some random accounts:

Fizzer:



GeneralPE:



Zephyrum:



4. Game against himself on the 1v1 ladder: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=11143992

These are the two ladder teams:

AI: https://www.warlight.net/LadderTeam?LadderTeamID=12742
Niklas: https://www.warlight.net/LadderTeam?LadderTeamID=8878

At the time of this post:

- AI/Niklas is aware that he can't have two accounts on the 1v1 ladder (and has been aware since at least 5/4)
- AI/Niklas has two accounts on the 1v1 ladder playing simultaneously, set at 5 games each
- AI/Niklas' two accounts are both rated highly (2300 and 1930's) on the 1v1 ladder, with the ranked one (AI) ranked around 30


I don't have any particular stake here- no concerns about whether M'Hunters will handle this internally (not their obligation, really) or whether Fizzer/someone with responsibility/interest will tackle it. Just made this because the last time I reported someone (RA), I got a message from a moderator telling me that my report had gone in blank- so I re-sent that one, this time with more information- and got another message telling me it had gone in blank. I do not know whether that bug has been discovered, figured out or fixed, and there's a chance that a related issue affected the reports I sent about AI and Niklas.

I'm just using a public channel because the private ones unfortunately don't seem to be working. Cheers.

Edited 5/12/2016 19:08:31
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 19:05:17


TBest 
Level 59
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He has been reported, and been recomanded warn for this in the past. He has not received an official warning, for which I do not know why (all the core evidence cited by Knyte here was included)

Anyway, ther really is no good way to prevent someone form having multiple accounts on the ladder, but PLEASE don't do it. (It gets kinda awkward when you have to surrender to yourself...)

The RA reports you talk about... that is interesting. I wonder what kind of Information is requiered as proof?

Edited 5/12/2016 19:06:50
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 19:06:37


Cata Cauda 
Level 57
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What a prick.
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 19:08:06


knyte 
Level 58
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Near the top tier, it's also abusive and unfair to other players on the 1v1 ladder because you can use your second account to lower others' ratings + pull off some other tricks that can move people down a few spots, ultimately making it tougher for others to succeed without pulling similar cheap tricks.
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 19:25:05


OxTheAutist 
Level 58
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mm, yes. You are right.
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 19:30:04


kynte
Level 51
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I think name's talking about this:

Niklas:
1v1: 939 / 1477 (64%)


AI:
1v1: 603 / 868 (69%)


That's not a really worthwhile indicator- you can easily see that by just looking at knyte (52% win rate on 1v1), vitriol (75%), and propulsion (something around 80%). I was a pretty weak player (once the very bottom of the 1v1 ladder) for most of knyte's history + vitriol's probably faced less tough opponents on average since most of its games have been against 1v1 auto players (propulsion's even more focused on 1v1 auto's, hence the higher win rate).

It's susceptible to the same factors (change in playstyle, different types of games) that affect RT play speed patterns, and also a bunch more.
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 19:33:23

AI
Level 59
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ok, I deserve the ban. I accept it ...

First, I didn't know that it's not allowed to have 2 accounts in the ladder and then I just had to join the ladder again because WL is boring without the 1v1 ladder... I did it not for cheating, but for having as much games as possible ongoing. Sorry guys
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 19:43:04


Nequam
Level 50
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I think it can be forgiven it's not like it's caused permanent damage to anyone.

Edited 5/12/2016 19:43:20
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 19:45:47


kynte
Level 51
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I don't think anyone's calling AI to get banned, although it'd be cool if he only kept one account on the ladder.

:P If you want 5 more ongoing games at a time, just invite random people to them. Can easily get at least a solid 50 from that.
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 19:47:12

AI
Level 59
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Yes, I alredy left the ladder with AI now.

Edit: Yeah but the problem is I want to play good games and no good player takes random games serious so it's not fun...

Edited 5/12/2016 19:48:25
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 19:48:42

Master of the Dead 
Level 62
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Playing two accounts is against the rules. But he was unaware and acknowledges his mistake. He graciously accepts his ban too and isn't being a dick about it.

I'd say just leave him be.
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 19:50:51

Jackie Treehorn 
Level 60
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Might as well surrender in your Alhazi style stalled games too...
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 19:58:32


Beren • apex 
Level 62
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The right thing to do, such as it is, would be to leave the ladder with Niklas and stay in with AI. Since AI has benefited from the cheated win. Just my opinion though.
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 20:00:04

Niklas
Level 59
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I do only stall one game at the moment against AWOL Gls AJ because his rating is very low... I'm also sorry for that, I normally don't do something like that.

Look here, I did not stall

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=11085217

Edit: Thanks MotD

Edited 5/12/2016 20:00:52
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 20:00:13


kynte
Level 51
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But he was unaware and acknowledges his mistake. He graciously accepts his ban too and isn't being a dick about it.


He's been aware of it for over a week (up to the Niklas-AI match)- that's partly why I redid the report, because he continued violating the rules despite knowing them and no action seemed to have been taken by any involved party. But beyond that I agree. No reason to get harsh here.

Just gotta reduce cheating on the 1v1 ladder. AI/Niklas is far from the first case, and much higher rated players have gotten away with exactly the same thing before.

Edited 5/12/2016 20:01:01
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 20:05:51


kynte
Level 51
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Ongoing cases? Nope, or I would've brought them up and avoiding singling anyone out.

The ladder's just had a problem with people getting away with cheating- and not having any actions taken against them.

Edited 5/12/2016 20:06:16
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 20:07:12


OxTheAutist 
Level 58
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not much higher rated than 2300 :P MoD's peak was 2301
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 20:16:46


kynte
Level 51
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Not to my knowledge. In any case, just to clear up confusion, there's no rule against having multiple accounts.
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 20:20:47


master of desaster 
Level 64
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not much higher rated than 2300 :P MoD's peak was 2301

With the only difference that i had my peak rating when there were less players on the ladder and with over 100 unexpired games
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 20:21:56

Niklas
Level 59
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I'm going to sleep guys. You can ask me anything about my "cheat" or whatever you want, but it's my birthday tomorrow so I will respond on May 14
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 20:27:09

daftpunk
Level 57
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"Does Fizzer have a second account actually ?"

Yes, NZPhoenix (AHOL)
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 20:36:54


{Shredtail2}
Level 56
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Whoosh
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 20:37:59


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Should be suspended in some way. Latnox was. Whether intentional or not, allowing it because they 'did not know' will just result in other people saying the same thing.
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 21:37:03

Semicedevine
Level 59
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If you want 5 more ongoing games at a time, just invite random people to them. Can easily get at least a solid 50 from that.

Bring IPL back!

BRING IPL BACK!

Edited 5/12/2016 21:37:45
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 22:25:24


Timinator 
Level 62
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I second semice. Kinda rare i do this.
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 23:19:58


Jefferspin 
Level 60
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I highly suggest you play out your games on AI as to not hurt those of us who beat that account. I'm not happy about this but whatever.

Edited 5/12/2016 23:20:21
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 23:31:01


Hades
Level 62
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You shouldn't leave the ladder with AI, you should leave it with niklas, as niklas is the account which benefited from the cheating.
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/12/2016 23:45:49


kynte
Level 51
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What do you mean with "hurt" ? Keep in mind that I'm not familiar with playing a lot of ladder games, hence the question.


The 1v1 ladder uses a ranking system called Bayeselo which takes into account the performance of your opponents after you beat them. If Player A beats AI (or worse yet, loses to AI) and AI's rating tanks because Niklas abandons the account, then Player A's rating's going to get lower too. If AI dips by, say, 50 or 100 points, then Player A's rating's going to dip a bit too because they either pulled off what now looks like an easier win or they lost to what now looks like a significantly weaker player.

This is one of the reasons you shouldn't use multiple accounts on a ladder- you can't do this on your main account since its rating would tank, but if you decided to use an alt to get your opponents' ratings to tank while you kept your own rating up, you're pushing everyone else down a bit and potentially making your rank a lot more secure.

If AI/Niklas decides to tank AI's rating, Jefferspin gets screwed pretty hard since Jefferspin has a loss to AI.

Edited 5/12/2016 23:49:17
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/13/2016 15:09:46


Jefferspin 
Level 60
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Well I beat AI and lost to Niklas but it still has a negative effect if he doesn't play out his remaining games on AI. A string of losses will bring AIs rating down and in turn bring down everyone else's whether they won or lost to AI.
Cheating on the 1v1 Ladder: 5/13/2016 15:39:17

Ollie 
Level 61
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please excuse me if i keep this game going for some days... dont worry, I will not stall like alhazi, just for a couple of days


quote from his game against AWOL GLS. He said that on 30/04/2016. Its now 13 days later and he still didn't surrender. You say you didn't know but when someone told you in private you ignored it. When it has been made public you remove the low rating account from the ladder while the other benefited from your cheating. And now you are big time stalling a long lost game. You don't deserve to get first place, cheater and a bad sport and all the sweet innocent talk doesn't change anything about your current actions. You deserved to get banned for this, so i highly suggest you surrender your lost games now and just accept that you are clearly not good enough to take first place right now

Edited 5/13/2016 15:48:42
Posts 1 - 30 of 109   1  2  3  4  Next >>   

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