Play
Multi-Player
Coins
Community
Settings
Help
Community   Maps   Forum   Mail   Ladders   Clans   Recent Games
Sign In | Sign Up
<< Back to Help Forum   

Posts 1 - 26 of 26   
Move order: 5/12/2016 21:34:29


Sułtan Kosmitów 
Level 63
Report
I thought nothing can surprise me in move order but then this game came and Njord pointed out the strange situation on turn 7.

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=11157247

From cycle turn order you could draw a conclusion that I move first. After we both played OD it should not change, Njord made a move before it but I can't see why it should effect it in any way.

Is it a bug or it is done on purpose? Then why? Or maybe after playing OD the move order is reseted to random?

Looking for an expert to answer us.

So far I think it is a bug.


EDIT:
Situation 1: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=11157247 - one move before OD. The move order is swaped in 6/6 games
(The other player makes a move before OD - https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=11158979 - still swaped in my opinion but here it is not obvious, what do you think?)
Situation 2: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=11158835 - two moves before OD. The move orders stays as it should be in 3/3 games
Situation 3: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=11158946 - three moves before OD. The move order is swaped in 2/2 games
Situation 4: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=11159037 - both players play a move before OD. The move order is swaped 1/1 in my opinion but it is not obvious, @see S1

Edited 5/12/2016 22:58:57
Move order: 5/12/2016 21:39:07

Master of the Dead 
Level 62
Report
Interesting. I wouldn't have expected that. Does it consistently repro? I'll try it later tonight if you haven't by then.
Move order: 5/12/2016 21:45:45


Master Farah♦
Level 58
Report
Sultan has first move overall
But he plays an OD card before his first order can be executed
While you don't
This means your move goes first
Then, since you are bound to get 2nd and third move together, you move first after the ODs

^ Is what i sent Njord. I think this is what happened
Move order: 5/12/2016 21:54:34

Master of the Dead 
Level 62
Report
Then, since you are bound to get 2nd and third move together, you move first after the ODs

The 2nd and 3rd move are consecutive only is we're following ABB.. since OD is a clear break in that pattern, I'm not so convinced with your explanation.
Move order: 5/12/2016 22:01:28


szeweningen 
Level 60
Report
Or maybe after playing OD the move order is reseted to random?


This is what happens from my experience. The same used to be with OP cards, but as far as i know it's not like that anymore.
Move order: 5/12/2016 22:12:03


Master Farah♦
Level 58
Report
Kinda weird, check this: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=11158719

Turn 2 seems to reset the move order randomly

Edited 5/12/2016 22:13:33
Move order: 5/12/2016 22:16:41


Timinator 
Level 62
Report
Shouldn't OD-cards be banned from coin games, if it's the case move order is random if two play the same amount of order delay-cards?
Just sayin'
Move order: 5/12/2016 22:20:31


Sułtan Kosmitów 
Level 63
Report
So far it seems it is not random. Though the rules are not yet clear for me but 5/5 poits out there is a rule. Too early experimenting (and too late time of the day) fir some constructive conclusion from me :)
Move order: 5/12/2016 22:21:07


Timinator 
Level 62
Report
Sorry if this ends up as a doublepost.


Assumption how it works:

Move-Order (without OD)
ABBAABBAABBAABBABBA...
Move-Order (1 OD)
A (plays OD) B (plays OD) B (move) A (move) A (move) B (move) ....
Move-Order (2 OD)
A (plays OD) B (plays OD) B (plays OD) A (plays OD) A (move) B (move) ...
Move-Order (3 OD)
A (plays OD) B (plays OD) B (plays OD) A (plays OD) A (plays OD) B (plays OD) B (move) A (move) ....



Anyone willing to check this out?
Move order: 5/12/2016 22:27:08


Sułtan Kosmitów 
Level 63
Report
Will check this out later Timi :)
for now it seems it all depends on the number of delaying moves befor playing ODs.
Move order: 5/12/2016 22:38:46


Master Farah♦
Level 58
Report
Farah
Farah♦*
Move order: 5/12/2016 22:58:38


Timinator 
Level 62
Report
Move order: 5/12/2016 23:02:09

Ollie 
Level 61
Report
A (plays OD) B (plays OD) B (move) A (move) A (move) B (move)


@timinator I was also wondering if that might have been how it worked. But then i went checking some games where this could have happened and it didn't. I watched a 1vs1 ladder game from buns vs braak.

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=10968566

Turn 6 they both played a delay card with buns having the first move that turn. Still after both playing a delay card he had first move.

Its really strange and i have never seen this before... I would say its a bug since nobody seems to have an explanation for it.
Move order: 5/12/2016 23:04:03


Sułtan Kosmitów 
Level 63
Report
Your theory asumes that the move order is swaped in every next move container as far as I understand, but it seems containers are not regardless of each other.

In the situation from Buns vs Braak game it may still be the first container.

Edited 5/12/2016 23:08:32
Move order: 5/12/2016 23:11:40


Sułtan Kosmitów 
Level 63
Report
It is a thing for Fizzer to fix but I ve got a question for you how it should work.


A situation in which player A would have first order without any cards.

Now: A moves, B moves, A plays OD, B plays OD, A moves, B moves.

I think it should be like that but maybe some of you would say that two last moves should be swaped.
Move order: 5/12/2016 23:18:41

a wandering echo
Level 37
Report
this needs to be addressed by fizzer, otherwise someone could in theory file legal action over losing a coin match due to this scenario

Edited 5/12/2016 23:18:55
Move order: 5/12/2016 23:19:33

a wandering echo
Level 37
Report
this has not been explained at all by card explanation, move explanation etc. if rules are not obvious, might as well be random, random = lottery =/= legal coin games
Move order: 5/12/2016 23:24:10

a wandering echo
Level 37
Report
this is not 'pure' 'skill' if hidden/unknown mechanics dictate outcomes
Move order: 5/12/2016 23:26:22


psykkoman
Level 55
Report
IMO it is not random actually and Timi had the correct idea. Buns vs Braak game is "exception" because in this case, cards didn't slotted between any moves. When played later (after 1st move of any player), OD cards simply become part of move order.
Move order: 5/12/2016 23:53:18


Sułtan Kosmitów 
Level 63
Report
Eh...thread to delete :/
Don't need to say why.
Move order: 5/13/2016 00:16:12

Fizzer 
Level 57

WarLight Creator
Report
Here's how it works, for each phase:

1. Consider all players with unprocessed orders. Is the top order for everyone an Order Delay card? If so, process one OD card from everyone.
2. Process the top order from each player whose top order is not an order delay card.
3. Reverse the move order.
4. If there are still unprocessed orders, go to 1.

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=11157247 Turn 7.

The attack phase begins to process. Sultan has first move, Njord has second. First, we check if all player's first order is an Order Delay card. They aren't.

Now we process one order for each player. Sultan's first order is an Order Delay card, so he's skipped. Njord's first order is the attack from Kenya's so it's processed and removed from his pending orders list.

Move order reverses. Now Njord is first, Sultan second.

Both players top order is an OD card, so we process both of them.

Now we process one attack from everyone. Njord is first in the move order, so his transfer to Hong Kong goes first.
Move order: 5/13/2016 00:21:35

Master of the Dead 
Level 62
Report
Thanks for the explanation Fizzer. Farah had it right ;)
Move order: 5/13/2016 01:12:06


Sułtan Kosmitów 
Level 63
Report
Thanks Fizzer. Sounds legit
Move order: 5/13/2016 04:55:29


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
Report
That makes sense, but doesn't seem like it should be that way. I always thought if both used the same card (in the same position), they would just cancel.

Good to know.
Move order: 5/13/2016 05:58:13


TeamGuns 
Level 58
Report
I thought it worked that way too.
Move order: 5/13/2016 06:26:01

player12345
Level 59
Report
Thanks for the explanation. I had misunderstood aspects of this card and apparently wasn't alone!

Here are proposed changes to the turn history messages to clarify the order delay card behavior.

change 1: When a player is 'skipped' due to an order delay card on top of their orders, add a history entry like "playerX delayed".

change 2: Reword the message "playerX plays an order delay card" to something like "order delay card for playerX expired".

So the history for turn 7 https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=11157247 would start like:

Sułtan delayed
16 armies... (Njord)
order delay card for Sułtan expired
order delay card for Njord expired

1 army... (Njord)
17 armies... (Sułtan)
...

Would these changes be useful?
Posts 1 - 26 of 26   

Contact | About WarLight | Play Risk Online | Multiplayer Strategy Game | Challenge Friends, Win Money | Skill Game | Terms of Service