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Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 04:37:35


Wally Balls 
Level 58
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How about if somebody has clearly lost, it counts as a loss in their rating anyway and it counts as a win for the other person. The exact details could be worked out but something like:

If your income is less than 50% of the other persons and you have less than 50% of their armies, and you take more than 24 hours to take your turn, it counts as a loss. If you somehow make a comeback, then it would be reversed.

People would probably still game the system but it would improve things a lot and prevent people from drawing out obvious losses, artificially boosting their own rating while holding back the rating of their opponent.

People stall like 50% of the time I beat them on the ladder and it's really annoying. Sometimes it looks like I'm on a losing streak and my rating takes a dive, simply because when I lose I surrender quickly, so all my wins are in limbo and the only games ending are those I lose.
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 08:04:07


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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I think I got to like a bit this idea. Idk if it should be implemented in these exact settings, but I believe that should be definetly checked out as a possibility to fix the problem.
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 09:25:48


Wally Balls 
Level 58
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Ya the exact settings I'm sure can be improved from my example, but the general concept of some games being counted as finished when they aren't actually finished, I think would help a lot.
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 11:19:43

le Marseillais 
Level 60
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+1 billy!!
sooo many players delay a max even best player :(
it s awfull!
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 11:31:42


Investigator
Level 5
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how do I level up fast ?

Edited 5/26/2016 11:55:43
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 11:56:07


Investigator
Level 5
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I want to play in the ladders with this account.
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 12:07:17


Beren • apex 
Level 62
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That sounds like a bit of work for Fizzer, but it seems like it would eliminate the most egregious instances of stalling. I like it.
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 12:52:35


Wally Balls 
Level 58
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It could show up like this:



Highlighted ones would be matches I've lost and am stalling in.
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 13:10:01


dry-clean-only
Level 56
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I thought you don't stall Billy ??

P.S. I don't see ladder stalling as a problem.. I've never come across anybody that does it although that could just be good fortune on my part. In my opinion if anyone is stalling to the point you suggested that the stalled game should automatically count as loss then you should just name and shame them on the forum so we can all have a good laugh and chuckle at their expense whilst we wait for them to inevitably plummet down the ladder again as they rightly deserve when their stalled games end.
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 13:12:45


Wally Balls 
Level 58
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I thought you don't stall Billy ??


That was just a mockup of what it could look like. I'm not actually stalling in those games.

Try using your brain, if I was somebody who abuses stalling, would I be proposing this change?

I don't see ladder stalling as a problem.. I've never come across anybody that does it


Translation: I'm a habitual staller, please don't make this change.

There is no way you don't regularly encounter stalling. Everybody does.

Edited 5/26/2016 13:16:44
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 13:25:29


GiantFrog
Level 58
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A comeback, especially in earlier stages of the game can be possible, even though it meets very strict conditions on incomeA/incomeB and armiesA/armiesB. (maybe he s taking a west china turn 2 while i didnt take anyting, but will take a big bonus next turn + have triple border on west china or similar scenarios)

Also, when the game is marked as lost due to meeting the given conditions, a comeback has to be impossible, as at that point both players now know what condtions it meets and the advantage of knowledge that it may give you should never impact the outcome of the game.

therefore the conditions would have to be very strict, the only thing you may prevent by that is someone running around with a stack (maybe not even that, depending on how big his stack is)

on a postivie side, as a comeback is now impossible, instead of marking the game, you could just end it at that point.

Edited 5/26/2016 13:31:40
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 14:03:01


Λ Jenny
Level 57
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What's the problem, at the end the good player are on the top of the ladder. I don't see any player in the top 20 who not deserve it. So what ?

Sorry, I mean top 30, because my best was something like 28 :))

Edited 5/26/2016 14:07:09
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 14:09:14


Wally Balls 
Level 58
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What's the problem, at the end the good player are on the top of the ladder. I don't see any player in the top 20 who not deserve it. So what ?


Some of them probably deserve a lower ranking than they have and some a higher ranking, within the top 20. It's not like a player who should be ranked 100th is ranked 5th by stalling but it can keep a player at 5th who should be at 10th or 15th.

Edited 5/26/2016 14:09:33
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 14:37:03


Λ Jenny
Level 57
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I think last year june to august there was one player nr.1 and was booted about 15 times in a row. Which means about 15 times player get poinst without playing, stalling means you get your poinst later. Now what is more unfair ?????

Jenny
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 14:45:22

TinyToad
Level 46
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A player wins a game he didnt play. In africa a kid starves to death. what is more unfair?

(Hint: its probably the african kid starving, but thats not the point)

Edited 5/26/2016 14:51:04
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 14:51:00


Λ Jenny
Level 57
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I don't start this thread, I have no problem with both ;)
..sometimes I stalling myself... but don't tell it to anyone... :))

and I myself think the player with the 15 boots is a very fair player but this was not the point either !

Edited 5/26/2016 14:54:22
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 14:53:20


Wally Balls 
Level 58
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sometimes I stalling myself


No shit.

Litmus test for this thread: people who stall don't like the idea. But they don't just defend the practice of stalling, they pretend it doesn't happen or that it doesn't have an impact.
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 15:00:15


Hana
Level 55
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I am the queen of stalling, but it is not against the role, isn't it?
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 15:13:21


OxTheAutist 
Level 58
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Billy do not lie. I talk with Ven a lot and he knows you are stalling that game... He won more than a week ago. You're busted, Mr "Anti-Stall Warrior".
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 15:48:37


Wally Balls 
Level 58
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That's different, it's not about ranking, it's because he's a dick. I didn't take my turn for like 6 hours and he starts flipping out in chat talking all this shit. If people want to stall to punish others for their behavior, that's fine. But not as a strategy to maximize your ranking.
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 16:18:58


OxTheAutist 
Level 58
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Lol, cover up game here. He was being respectful and you reply with "calm the fuck down. There is a 99.99% chance you won, but as long as I have a 0.01% chance to win, then I will continue!" "I will punish you for your sins!" and shit like that lolol. You're a staller, just admit it :P
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 16:30:49


Wally Balls 
Level 58
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That is not what happened and I don't care about your opinion. As I said, it has nothing to do with rating. I'm punishing him for behaving like a child.
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 16:35:59


master of desaster 
Level 64
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That is irrelevant to this topic. I agree that there would be good ways to avoid stalling. That idea came up before but seems not to be on fizzers immediate (if at all) roadmap
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 16:38:09

graemes
Level 56
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I think this is a clever solution and I would argue that you can probably be even more aggressive than 50% income/50% armies. I understand that comebacks could potentially happen from 50% in either category but from 50% in both is completely impossible.

False positives (games which were flagged as stalling but eventually turn into comebacks) aren't affected in the long run. It doesn't affect either player's rating once the game is correctly adjudicated.

False negatives (games where someone is stalling despite being within the 'comeback range') should be treated the same as the more blatant forms of stalling in my opinion.

This is a great way to take away the 'reward' of stalling. Under this system it would be a waste of both players' time rather than just the winner's.
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 16:59:41


GiantFrog
Level 58
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Marking a game is pointless, as after its been marked the outcome may be effected by the information thats been handed out by marking it. Meaning you should directly end a game when it meets the conditions, which also means that a comeback should ve been impossible at that point.

To argue at what point a situation is impossible to comeback from, you first have to agree on how stupid your enemy will play.
there obviously are situations where, if the enemy plays it perfect, there is no chance of coming back, even with perfect gambling (meaning, even if you d know what moves he does, you d still lose). But that does not mean that there is no chance for you to come back, as your enemy probably wont play perfect.
Also, there is no situation (at least not on the current ladder settings) that you are guranteed to win, no matter how stupid you play. Meaning, with maximum stupid enemy, its never impossible to come back.
Therefore your enemies skill has to be set somewhere between maximum stupid and perfect before any condition could be made that completly ensures a comeback is impossible.

Edited 5/26/2016 17:01:12
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 17:02:48


master of desaster 
Level 64
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I don't think bad players would realize or care wheter their game got marked. Good players know already that they lost and they won't play that badly and screw up on such a situation.
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 17:16:02


dry-clean-only
Level 56
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@Billy

When I wrote "I thought you don't stall Billy ??" it was a joke. It was humorous for the reasons you pointed out. I know humour might be a strange concept to you but before you lash out and insult people maybe "Try using your brain" (I think that's how you put it)


@Billy again

When I wrote "I don't see ladder stalling as a problem.. I've never come across anybody that does it". That was a fact. I'm relatively new to the ladder peaked just over 30 and am now in the 40's due to poor and slow play during the exam period. But none of these "undeserving stallers" that were ranked near me have stalled a single game yet.

So maybe before insulting me, calling me a liar and falsely accusing me of being a staller why don't you grow up and learn some manners. After all if you treat people this badly on forums then maybe just maybe some of them remember that. Maybe you encounter more stallers than me out of spite for how you treat people on forums.

Edited 5/26/2016 17:16:32
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 18:45:16

Jaymer
Level 56
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This solution seems overly difficult to implement and controversial. Who decides the criteria for a loss?

As I mentioned in another thread, I think it would be simpler if people didn't get ranked until after completing their first 20 games according to start date, not end date. Then stalling has no effect; you still have to finish the first 20 games you started before you get your ranking. That doesn't stop stalling after a person is already ranked, but... do people do that? I thought stalling was mostly just for runs.
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 18:59:42


Fleecemaster 
Level 59
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All games should end after 10 turns, winner is player with most troops. gg.
Idea to fix ladder stalling: 5/26/2016 19:09:39


Nex
Level 59
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All games should end after 10 turns, winner is player with most troops. gg.


No
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