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CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/13/2016 16:35:36

daftpunk
Level 57
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Reference:

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=19329

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer/Tournament?ID=19341

This doesn't sit well with me in the fact that these players are no longer in the clan(s) they represent. I'm speaking here about Mirage (apprentice) representing NWO and NinjaNic (ACE) representing ACME. It's bad enough that the lower divisions are full of alts from upper tier clans but now players that are not even in the clan they are playing for? Kind of defeats the purpose.

Edited 6/13/2016 16:40:53
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/13/2016 16:44:01


Nox
Level 59
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https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=3840197714 - He still has an account in NWO even with the same name that is just the account entered for CL.

Edited 6/13/2016 16:44:31
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/13/2016 16:44:31


knyte 
Level 58
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That's been the case for previous Clan Leagues as well. You're allowed to compete for a clan you have ties with, usually a clan you were a longtime member of but recently left (sometimes between the lineup deadline and the start of Clan League). In Division D, one of TJC's key players- smileyleg- is actually in WG right now, but he's been in TJC for a long time and has competed for TJC in CL before, too.
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/13/2016 16:49:17


The Hysterical Koala
Level 57
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By this same logic, professional sportsmen should only compete for wherever they live, or where they grew up, or where they are born, or who the closely affiliate to, or their heritage, or... wait... XD

But seriously, the analogy holds pretty true. What if someone wants to help out a weaker clan they are friendly with? What if they want to try playing with the big dogs? If there is some reasonable association then let it be!
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/13/2016 17:15:36


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
Level 59
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^Okay i agree with that in the sportsleagues. But therefore there is a manager league.

Clan League. How the name says 'Clan'-League actually means you should be part of the clan you are playing for, isnt it? (at least with an alt) ...with an specific symbol beside your name.

I will play against smileyleg in Battle Island. I wouldnt notice that TJC is in our division if i wouldnt play other games too.

A bit strange in my mind. I really hope next season we play 'clan' league again

Edited 6/13/2016 17:18:32
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/13/2016 17:21:11


Onoma94
Level 59
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Clan League. How the name says 'Clan'-League actually means you should be part of the clan you are playing for, isnt it? (at least with an alt)

Well it is the case with all players mentioned. Smiley, NinjaNic, Mirage all have alt accounts in respective ex-clans.
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/13/2016 17:23:18


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
Level 59
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though its strange playing against a player in WG-dress

EDIT: Otherwise its good to know with what caliber you are fighting with

EDIT2:
Damn! I am undecided ...

EDIT3:
Next season I would like to see a roster only of mains with alts in new created clans in Division G (or whatever).
Just for showing that this is really to be thought about again.

Edited 6/13/2016 17:39:12
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/13/2016 17:32:14


ps 
Level 59
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ringers are killing the clan scene!
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/13/2016 17:37:29


The Hysterical Koala
Level 57
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@let's fight -

"Clan League. How the name says 'Clan'-League actually means you should be part of the clan you are playing for, isnt it? (at least with an alt) ...with an specific symbol beside your name."

I disagree. All I get from "clan league" is that clans are competing. Nothing about mercenaries, or people with dual citizen-ships, or recent immigrants. I could go back to the sports analogy but it would be redundant.
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/13/2016 17:40:45


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
Level 59
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Next season I would like to see a roster only of mains with alts in a new created clan in Division G (or whatever).
Just to protest.

Edited 6/13/2016 17:42:23
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/13/2016 17:42:44

daftpunk
Level 57
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Professional sportsman play for the team to which they are signed. It's not about playing for a local team but the team in which you are signed to. Yes, players are loaned to lesser teams who obtain exclusive control of the player for the duration of the loan spell. They don't play for Manchester United on Saturday and Watford on Wednesday.
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/13/2016 17:52:00

daftpunk
Level 57
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"I disagree. All I get from "clan league" is that clans are competing. Nothing about mercenaries, or people with dual citizen-ships, or recent immigrants. I could go back to the sports analogy but it would be redundant."

But Apprentice and ACE are not competing and that's my point. It needs tidying up - as Nox pointed out, both players have alts in their prior clans (Which I didn't know) so these accounts should be invited. I personally don't like the alt situation but it is what it is.
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/13/2016 18:08:12


knyte 
Level 58
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It's not like people are competing for multiple clans. Everyone's picked a single clan that they're competing for, and that's their team for Clan League. There's a separation between the clan your main account's in and the team you play for in CL.
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/13/2016 19:21:49


Simi the Lunatic
Level 58
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Knyte is right, in all divisions, there are guys from upper clans that play for clans belonging to lower divisions. The thing is some guys have many clan allegiances and they are free to represent 1 and only 1 clan for each Clan League. I know guys that could compete in A but represent B, guys that are in division B with their main but play for division E, etc. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it as long as they have ties with the clan they will represent and, of course, an alt in the clan they play for.

I can't see theses guys as being "mercenaries" because being a "mercenary" implies getting some kind of personal reward for your actions. In this case, there is no personal reward to do well in CL8, only a clan reward. All the people that compete for their respective clans should be driven by the will to see their clan succeed in CL8, main clan or alt clan, because it is the only true reward at stake.

Funny you mention Mirage because he was a CM of NWO with his main account not long ago and contributed to the actual successes of NWO. In my opinion, we have to right to say anything concerning which clan a player with many accounts will choose to represent because it is their personal choice.

Edited 6/13/2016 19:24:26
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/13/2016 20:12:50


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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I don't see people going down to other divisions to beat up on poeple. Smileyleg and almosttricky will play for us next season. But they joined WG right before CL started and their old clans need them to compete for them this season. Just bad timing really.

Edited 6/13/2016 20:14:08
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/14/2016 04:59:16


Dr. Stupid 
Level 57
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NinjaNic still has an alt in Acme. Also, his new clan ACE is focused on programming and map making. They will not be fielding a Clan League team and any ACE members who wish to participate in Clan League will do so with their home clans.
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/14/2016 05:24:14

Master of the Dead 
Level 62
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Yes, players are loaned to lesser teams who obtain exclusive control of the player for the duration of the loan spell. They don't play for Manchester United on Saturday and Watford on Wednesday.

If you see anyone playing for two different clans in the SAME season, do let us know as it is against the rules.

Clans are just a group of friends. If you started out in one clan, and eventually move on to another, you can still have friends. I don't see the point of forcing someone to move back to their old clan, just to play the clan league.

What is the solution to players moving clans during a season? Do you want to forbid that as well? If not, the tournament page looks exactly as it does today.

Say we did implement such a rule, what stops someone from temporarily joining their old clan for a day, and switching back after the clan league begins?

Edited 6/14/2016 05:37:33
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/14/2016 07:04:53


Captain Trips 
Level 59
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If I was Fizzer I would find a way to prevent anyone from opening an alternate account...alts have stained the honesty and integrity of this game... there are some twisted individuals that satisfy their needs for attention by creating multiple characters and accounts and then when they get bored the just bail and leave games and tourneys hanging wide open and any friends they made holding the bag... I am still trying to weed out the custerfluck that I erroneously took over... ha ! how appropriate ... alts are evil and should all be burned at the stake...I like to know who I am strapping with instead of constantly wondering from which alternative rock will Max coming crawling out from under...that's my 2 bit rant for this season... just sayin'!
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/14/2016 07:52:41


Simi the Lunatic
Level 58
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Some people do indeed act irresponsable with their alts as Trips says but a lot of people who have alts are good players in my experience that often want to be in multiple clans because they want to have a privilaged access to specific wl communities. Also, having multiple accounts allows people to try-out team picking builds before important tournaments, clan leagues, ladders, etc. It isn't always easy to practice team games compared to 1vs1 games because in team games, you have to find people that will play on the same level as you and with whom you will have good cooperation, which isn't always possible in RT games.

An other important to consider with alts is that often, guys from upper clan divisions will help a lot people from lower clan divisions to improve themselves and become good players by having alts in theses lower clan divisions. Also, having some good players alts in your clan really helps having more credibility when you start a clan because people from the community will talk more about your clan, knowing good players are in it.

It is not alts that should be banned or prevented, it should be trolls, disrespectful/irresponsable people that bring nothing good to warlight.

Edited 6/14/2016 08:06:06
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/14/2016 11:20:24


Gazpacho
Level 58
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Alts always will be a true warlight cancer. Clan League just makes it more ridiculous. Other than cheating or stat massaging, i really dont know why people even bother to have them.

In a world where alts cant be stopped then they cant be stopped in ladders, clan leagues or anything else, so they will always lead to abuse of the system.

1 i.p address 1 account - thats what i want but obv fizzer would be against it for obvious reasons
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/14/2016 11:21:54


Gazpacho
Level 58
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+ 1 trips
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/14/2016 12:55:13


Rikku
Level 57
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There are plenty of reasonable reasons why people would want to use an alternative account, such as:

-Being in multiple clans
-Using different account for different game types (see Nogals / mister Aqua)
-Byeing RT tourneys
-Playing team games with your self RT to avoid randoms.

And I'm sure there are many I've missed. Straight up calling them the cancer of Warlight is willful ignorance.

Yes some people will use alts for bad purpose but that is no need to deflame the use of all alts. If you see someone gaining an unfair advantage in a game or ladder with an alt report it! :p
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/15/2016 15:57:19


psykkoman
Level 55
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People who want to cheat would create alts regardless if they are permitted or not.

Anyway this discussion was derailed a bit. Thread creator was not concerned on alts but the fact that some guys play for other clans than they are currently part of. Which is inevitable, people switch clans all the time. Any rule preventing CL participants from doing that would add another problem to organiziation of the event, as if this is not quite complicated anyway :P
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/15/2016 16:49:43


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
Level 59
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Clans are just a group of friends. If you started out in one clan, and eventually move on to another, you can still have friends. I don't see the point of forcing someone to move back to their old clan, just to play the clan league.

What is the solution to players moving clans during a season? Do you want to forbid that as well? If not, the tournament page looks exactly as it does today.

Say we did implement such a rule, what stops someone from temporarily joining their old clan for a day, and switching back after the clan league begins?


Of course, a player can leave a clan and join another at any time. We cant change this steady flow.
BUT...
The thing is if you allow it now openly and with good conscience, the threshold (i hope i translated it right) is sinking to change a clan just for Clan League. The next step is that high skilled players that are not playing in the CL, because in their clan are even better players than theriselves, switch to low skilled clans in lower divisions ... Supressing the actually core and soul of a specific clan.

Don't force low-skilled clans letting chartered players play for them instead of their real representatives of a clan ... just to stay competitive.

Its like selling your clan's soul.
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/15/2016 17:04:58


Nox
Level 59
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So you're saying players in division E need to be bad and players in division A need to be good or else it's unethical?

Edited 6/15/2016 17:05:30
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/15/2016 17:07:47


Gazpacho
Level 58
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I dont think he quite said that...and Rikku - they are reasonable but fairly tenuous reasons for having an alt. Wear your shitty stats on your chest and strive to make them better.
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/15/2016 17:13:43


Onoma94
Level 59
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The next step is that high skilled players that are not playing in the CL, because in their clan are even better players than theriselves, switch to low skilled clans in lower divisions ...


?? This is not at all happening! What is happening is players from lower divisions join clans in higher divisions, but sometimes they still play for their ex-clan. Basically you're angry because smileyleg decided to join WG.
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/15/2016 17:47:24


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
Level 59
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Of course I am not happy seeing our opponents suddendly getting stronger, would you?
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/15/2016 17:49:26


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
Level 59
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btw smileyleg is a WG now and plays for TJC again.
Although he played for TJC before it is still a change from Division A (actual clan) to D (clan he is playing for).

But actually I dont want to fix at smileyleg or TJC or someoneelse, really not. Please don't interpret it wrong.

Its just about the next CL and the CL after it. If you dont stay at certain rules. More and more players WILL (I dont say it is happening now) pushing rules how they want it until it is no fun to play CL anymore

Edited 6/15/2016 17:56:38
CL8 - Am I being too harsh?: 6/15/2016 17:50:38


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
Level 59
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I am just saying MY opinion. I dont say you need to adapt it. (Often it will be forgetten in threads)
Posts 1 - 30 of 37   1  2  Next >>   

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