Gahk, this is bloody annoying that so many folk think this.

1. The Red Army in and near Moskva would not be exhausted by the several counterattacks they staged in September otl.
2. The over a million soldiers in Kyiv and the Southwestern front would not be encircled without the 2nd army attack.
2a. This would overextend the right flank of the German advance on Moscow and could lead to a disaster for the Germans.
3. No matter where the Germans are, there will end up being ten new Russian Armies ready for a counterattack against the Germans, whether in Moscow or west of it.

Who asked for this?
Who cares?
Can you not for once?

Who asked for your thread composed of cartoon women? Exactly, no one you weeb. Now go and try blowing up something in Northern Ireland, you Irish paedophile.

MGSB, as Loli's Centipede I must defend him from your frivolous accusations. Recline your assertions or you will be shunned.

MGSB, i asked him to post that thread and i care about him/her.I do care about you too but not the way you want though, you attention whore.

Edited 7/10/2016 18:07:03

Wtf

Mmmm yessss. The drama and hate pleases me.

+1

All hail the glorious leader!

MGSB can create mass butthurt just by making one innocent thread.

+1. Please continue, I love watching people blow up over literally nothing.

mmm lt wezr dis playsh ^

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0rV88Ev-og

the 2nd army was the only thing stopping hitler from success !! ur wrong

^ that's more inbred than Charles II

^

v

Edited 7/10/2016 21:50:05

Is this when Hitler personally intervened from the battle plans for Barbarossa and pulled troops from army group center to the south instead of pushing on Moscow? You are probably right but Germany still could have won had they brought along a few coats

EDIT: or the Japanese had attacked the Siberian armies, focusing their forces on Russia and quietly taking the Dutch East Indies.

Edited 7/11/2016 02:28:35

Coats don't defend your vehicles and horses against the muddy season, nor you from Russian steel, lead and gunpowder.

And yes, this is when Hitler delayed the advance on Moscow a month.

At this point in the war Russian tanks were woefully out classed by German designs. Russia even had to stop production of war materials to move whole factories (workforce and all) from the heavily industrialized, overrun eastern Europe to Siberia.

Edited 7/11/2016 02:27:21

You do realize that the Germans had serious issues penetrating T-34 and KV armor right? And still, it wasn't the winter that stopped the Germans at Moskva, it was most definitely the Red Army, considering the Germans did assault their lines and were still repelled.

I think you are overestimating the USSR's preparedness at the onset of the war. Their tank army largely consisted of BT-7s, T-40s, and T-26s. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_combat_vehicle_production_during_World_War_II)


While it was the Red Army that stopped them at Moscow, a number of things could have changed the course of the battle. It was the Siberian divisions brought over from Eastern Russia that tipped the balanced and allowed the USSR to counterattack. If Japan had at least confronted these divisions then the USSR counterattack would have failed.

Additionally, as I have stated before, if the Germans had been prepared for the winter then they would have easily beaten back the Soviet counter offensive as both sides have roughly the same number of men and tanks (after the Siberian divisions were taken into account).

Edited 7/11/2016 02:50:11

you have so much in common then.