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Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/20/2016 23:27:19


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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https://www.rt.com/op-edge/352283-syria-us-france-bombing/

France has carried out a dread attack in Syria, has bombed a civilian location and has killed 120+ civilians.
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/21/2016 01:22:33


GeneralPE
Level 56
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Good
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/21/2016 02:48:27


#The Prussian Job-Oh yeah, baby...
Level 49
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Killing civilians ain´t good. That´s murder. Let´s sue France for it.
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/21/2016 02:49:23


DerWyyy
Level 53
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Were they aiming for a ISIS base or something....
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/21/2016 03:25:13


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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They will probably say they were, but there were likely no Islamic State fighters in the area.

Edited 7/21/2016 03:31:03
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/21/2016 03:29:16


#The Prussian Job-Oh yeah, baby...
Level 49
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Okaaaaaaayyyyyyyy?
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/21/2016 03:30:55

[FEL]Chatul
Level 22
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I don't think France would do that unless by accident. There is no incentive for France to massacre some civilians.
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/21/2016 03:34:49


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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I don't think France would do that unless by accident. There is no incentive for France to massacre some civilians.

America didn't have any real incentive to nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki (the estimates were far lower than the million men Truman stated) but they did it anyway.

They bombed the location thirty times over. That's no accident. That's a show of force and probably some sickening revenge scheme for Nice.
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/21/2016 03:36:18

[FEL]Chatul
Level 22
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^Oh.. For this? Against something such as ISIS who couldn't care less about human lives this can not stop any future attacks.
ISIS has zero respect for human lives, including the lives of their own fighters. Do you think they will even care about dead civilians? (Except for propaganda value)

Edited 7/21/2016 03:37:26
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/21/2016 03:38:36


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Revenge isn't logical, it's emotional. The barbarous French pilots were probably doing this in revenge, savages.

Edited 7/21/2016 03:43:39
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/21/2016 03:39:29

[FEL]Chatul
Level 22
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^This only strengthens ISIS by alienating even more Muslims.

Edited 7/21/2016 03:39:41
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/21/2016 03:40:28


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Do you think they will even care about dead civilians?

Yes, they do care. Why do you think so many support them? Because they're tired of the westerners killing hundreds of civilians in military operations. This is more fuel to the fire.

Edited 7/21/2016 03:43:18
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/21/2016 03:41:49

[FEL]Chatul
Level 22
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^Well this is a misunderstanding. What I meant is that ISIS is not hurt over civilians dying. I agree with you.

Edited 7/21/2016 03:42:05
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/21/2016 03:42:41


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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^This only strengthens ISIS by alienating even more Muslims.

Of course this is what it's doing. Did those French savages care? Hell no. Just like almost every single army or military didn't care about how it treated folk in areas it controlled or bombed.

Edited 7/21/2016 03:43:01
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/21/2016 03:45:02

[FEL]Chatul
Level 22
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^Non-Muslim armies need to stay out of Muslim land. No matter what happens we can not enter their land since they probably do not tolerate non-Muslims armies for religious reasons.

At the same time we should require all Muslim armies to stay away from non-Muslim lands. Non-Muslims need to understand what the Qur'an says in order to properly communicate with Muslims. Islam has a long history of applied Sharia unlike Judeo-Christianity so we need to take this into consideration.

Edited 7/21/2016 03:47:20
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/21/2016 15:04:10


Spenglerian Traditionalist
Level 47
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+1 PE
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/21/2016 17:18:22


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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σκάσε βάρβαρος
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/22/2016 09:48:58


Leibstandarte (Vengeance)
Level 40
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I like watching the world burn.
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/22/2016 15:34:49


Stewie
Level 51
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more refugees for us...
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/22/2016 16:26:41


adrian waco
Level 25
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The bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was justified. It saved countless American lives.
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/22/2016 16:42:29


Trumps Wall
Level 7
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^
+1
Amen brother amen
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/22/2016 16:55:13


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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No it didn't. The most that would have been lost in a full invasion of Japan was 46,000 lives. More than 100,000 Japanese civilians died in Hiroshima. It wasn't worth it.

http://connection.ebscohost.com/c/articles/11078538/postwar-myth-500-000-u-s-lives-saved

the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. … My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make wars in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children.
- Admiral William Leahy

Edited 7/22/2016 16:59:56
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/22/2016 17:15:11


Eklipse {TJC}
Level 56
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46,000? Are you serious?

Deaths at Iwo Jima: 23,000 (Rounded down minded you)
Deaths at Okinawa: 97,000

And these were relatively minor islands with limited importance to Japan other than their location. If nearly a hundred-thousand died just for the small island of Okinawa, are you really as naive to think it would only take 46,000 to conquer mainland Japan?

Once the U.S attacked Japan proper the resistance would have only gotten fiercer. The Japanese government would conscript its remaining citizens and send them off to fight with the same "Death before surrender" zeal that Japanese forces had in previous battles.

Hundreds of thousands of Americans AND Japanese would have died in a battle for mainland Japan, and that's a light-hearted estimate.
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/22/2016 17:17:31


GeneralPE
Level 56
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Eklipse, stop using facts to refute his irrational, government hating ideology. His head might explode. Also, wars cannot be won by destroying women and children? I call bullshit
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/22/2016 17:54:04


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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46,000? Are you serious?

Are you seriously going to ignore estimates from military commanders at the time?

Deaths at Iwo Jima: 23,000 (Rounded down minded you)
Deaths at Okinawa: 97,000

And these were relatively minor islands with limited importance to Japan other than their location. If nearly a hundred-thousand died just for the small island of Okinawa, are you really as naive to think it would only take 46,000 to conquer mainland Japan?


Are you seriously going to argue against most of the military commanders at the time? Oh of course you will, you need to serve your state or you'll go to hell.

Japanese soldiers on Okinawa and Iwo Jima had enough supplies to fight the US, and had no place to retreat to (Japan being far larger would provide places to retreat to), leaving officers with no choice but to keep fighting on instead of retreating, which raised casualties extremely.

Once the U.S attacked Japan proper the resistance would have only gotten fiercer. The Japanese government would conscript its remaining citizens and send them off to fight with the same "Death before surrender" zeal that Japanese forces had in previous battles.

Millions of people were homeless, no oil was coming into Japan and the majority of their other imports were destroyed. The Japanese government was already considering surrender at that point too, do you think they'd just conscript everyone and charge them out?


US War Department-
The conviction and strength of the peace party was increased by the continuing Japanese military defeats, and by Japan's helplessness in defending itself against the ever-growing weight of air attack on the home islands. On 7 April 1945, less than a week after United States landings on Okinawa, Koiso was removed and Marquis Kido installed Admiral Suzuki as premier. Kido testified to the Survey that, in his opinion, Suzuki alone had the deep conviction and personal courage to stand up to the military and bring the war to an end.

Early in May 1945, the Supreme War Direction Council began active discussion of ways and means to end the war, and talks were initiated with Soviet Russia seeking her intercession as mediator.

The talks by the Japanese ambassador in Moscow and with the Soviet ambassador in Tokyo did not make progress. On 20 June the Emperor, on his own initiative, called the six members of the Supreme War Direction Council to a conference and said it was necessary to have a plan to close the war at once, as well as a plan to defend the home islands. The timing of the Potsdam Conference interfered with a plan to send Prince Konoye to Moscow as a special emissary with instructions from the cabinet to negotiate for peace on terms less than unconditional surrender, but with private instructions from the Emperor to secure peace at any price. Although the Supreme War Direction Council, in its deliberations on the Potsdam Declaration, was agreed on the advisability of ending the war, three of its members, the Prime Minister, the Foreign Minister and the Navy Minister, were prepared to accept unconditional surrender, while the other three, the Army Minister, and the Chiefs of Staff of both services, favored continued resistance unless certain mitigating conditions were obtained.

On 6 August the atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, and on 9 August Russia entered the war. In the succeeding meetings of the Supreme War Direction Council, the differences of opinion previously existing as to the Potsdam terms persisted exactly as before. By using the urgency brought about through fear of further atomic bombing attacks, the Prime Minister found it possible to bring the Emperor directly into the discussions of the Potsdam terms. Hirohito, acting as arbiter, resolved the conflict in favor of unconditional surrender.

The public admission of defeat by the responsible Japanese leaders, which constituted the political objective of the United States offensive begun in 1943, was thus secured prior to invasion and while Japan was still possessed of some 2,000,000 troops and over 9,000 planes in the home islands. Military defeats in the air, at sea and on the land, destruction of shipping by submarines and by air, and direct air attack with conventional as well as atomic bombs, all contributed to this accomplishment.

There is little point in attempting precisely to impute Japan's unconditional surrender to any one of the numerous causes which jointly and cumulatively were responsible for Japan's disaster. The time lapse between military impotence and political acceptance of the inevitable might have been shorter had the political structure of Japan permitted a more rapid and decisive determination of national policies. Nevertheless, it seems clear that, even without the atomic bombing attacks, air supremacy over Japan could have exerted sufficient pressure to bring about unconditional surrender and obviate the need for invasion.


Edited 7/22/2016 18:03:50
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/22/2016 18:06:56


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Eklipse, stop using facts to refute his irrational, government hating ideology.

Nothing irrational about hating the government. The only thing irrational is the Truman bootlicking going on here.
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/22/2016 19:55:28


GeneralPE
Level 56
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while Japan was still possessed of some 2,000,000 troops and over 9,000 planes in the home islands.

2 million soldiers and only 46k Americans would die? I smell bullshit
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/22/2016 20:00:52


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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The public admission of defeat by the responsible Japanese leaders, which constituted the political objective of the United States offensive begun in 1943, was thus secured prior to invasion and while Japan was still possessed of some 2,000,000 troops and over 9,000 planes in the home islands.
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/22/2016 20:03:03


GeneralPE
Level 56
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begun in 1943. Do you think I'm so dumb I don't know when the offensive started? Oh wait, looks like someone can't read his source
Dread attack in Syria: 120 civilians killed: 7/22/2016 20:07:20


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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begun in 1943. Do you think I'm so dumb I don't know when the offensive started? Oh wait, looks like someone can't read his source


Can you read the source? It states that they had that much in 1943, not 45, you idiot.
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