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Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/24/2016 12:04:22


kntye
Level 25
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Basically, put the current Warlight AI's/auto-pilots on the 1v1 ladder with a limit of 1 game each (so they aren't replacing real players too often) and just keep them there permanently. Not only are they going to be okay sparring opponents (once their rating settles, it's not like Buns is going to find himself playing Wunderwaffe) for people in their tier but they'll also allow us to compare the relative skill level of ladder players over time.

These AI's don't learn. They'll perform at the same level. We might experience some drift as people learn to play vs. the AI's better but even that will settle down after some time. So now we'd be able to compare people who had little or no overlap in their 1v1 ladder activity and have a baseline by which we can gauge the average skill level of the ladder and how it evolves over time.
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/24/2016 13:25:49

greatest ever
Level 39
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kinda like female wrestlers. humiliating for people who lose to them. even moreso for people who are obviously worse than them.
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/24/2016 13:38:56


knyte 
Level 58
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Not quite the point. Female wrestlers get better/worse over time. AI's don't.

Edited 7/24/2016 14:27:55
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/24/2016 13:48:26


[TNW] Commander Vimes
Level 29
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"If I win, I'll be the shit who killed an old man. If I lose, I'll be the shit who was killed by an old man."
This sort of situation?
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/24/2016 13:57:45


knyte 
Level 58
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I think you might be underestimating the AI's. They might do better than bottom 50 on the ladder.
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/24/2016 14:22:26

greatest ever
Level 39
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Unlike you. Also unlike you, they are more intelligent than a pile of feces.
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/24/2016 14:27:24


Hades
Level 62
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Would be cool to see what rating they get, but if people know they're playing an AI, can't they just find out what the AI will do by setting up the scenario or something, or looking up the AI's other games. Or do you think people won't go to that much effort?

Maybe someone with membership, could enter the ladder and just play the AI's moves every turn?
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/24/2016 14:29:09


knyte 
Level 58
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@Hades: That's a good idea.

Which AI do you think would land closest to the middle of the ladder?

Just realized I'd actually still be able to compete on the ladder with kynte, as long as I carefully join and leave the ladder to make sure that knyte and kynte are never on there concurrently.

@greatest ever: How does it feel to have lost to someone less intelligent than a pile of feces?

Edited 7/24/2016 14:50:48
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/24/2016 14:51:46


Norman 
Level 57
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Hello

Would be cool to see what rating they get, but if people know they're playing an AI, can't they just find out what the AI will do by setting up the scenario or something, or looking up the AI's other games. Or do you think people won't go to that much effort?

The problem is that Wunderwaffe is also examining your play (to a very limited extent at least). Even I usually don't know where it will attack, since there are to many factors coming into play. It's however possible to trick the AI for sure, for example if you have one big stack which the AI can't attack, it won't attack there and you are safe to move the stack away to another threatened territory. Humans should usually realise this kind of play. Sadly the version of Wunderwaffe running on the servers can't save any information between the turns. So it would be no fun for me to watch my bot play.


Maybe someone with membership, could enter the ladder and just play the AI's moves every turn?
This has already happened before. As I have expected, the results weren't really great but it certainly managed to win it's games at the lower end.
https://www.warlight.net/LadderGames?ID=0&LadderTeamID=12790
I have fixed the expansion issues to some extent in the meantime. Apparently this version without having the slightest idea about what is going on behind the fog already peaked at about a 1300 rating.
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/24/2016 14:58:06


knyte 
Level 58
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As long as the AI is able to win at the lower end enough to have some meaningful distance from the bottom (and from the top), it'd be good enough to track how good the ladder is on average.

So the version of Wunderwaffe you created actually has some learning? That's pretty cool. Although it works for me because it doesn't learn, since that means its level of skill stays roughly consistent.

Apparently this version without having the slightest idea about what is going on behind the fog already peaked at about a 1300 rating.


That's not bad at all. I mean, the AI doesn't need to be good, just good enough to beat some players- basically good enough that it's >95% likely to be better than the worst player on the ladder. Maybe it'd even work if it's at the bottom.

How does Wunderwaffe compare to CowZow? CowZow was the one that beat it in the AI Games, right?
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/24/2016 15:00:01


Norman 
Level 57
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How does Wunderwaffe compare to CowZow? CowZow was the one that beat it in the AI Games, right?

The version of Cowzow running on the WarLight servers is obviously broken. GreenTea was the best bot.
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/24/2016 15:02:49

greatest ever
Level 39
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I never played you, fecal brains.
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/24/2016 15:10:09


knyte 
Level 58
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Aren't you Wally Balls?
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/24/2016 15:24:12


Zephyrum 
Level 60
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This has already happened before. As I have expected, the results weren't really great but it certainly managed to win it's games at the lower end.
https://www.warlight.net/LadderGames?ID=0&LadderTeamID=12790


Worth noting that, first, not all of my ladder games were AI ones. Though right now the non-AI ones already expired (I started using it against ProcloManfredi); and second, I only blindly pressed Run and Commit on Wunderwaffe, never using other bots and never moving anything.

Essentially it gives you a solid victory spree with 0 effort early on the ladder due to it's smart picking, BUT eventually just solid picking won't work; the lack of counterplaying around your intel (you might know all your enemy's picks; wunderwaffe just pretends it doesn't), coupled with the rather weird attempts at breaking bonuses and extremely easy predictability once you figure out it's an AI, and your ELO starts to drop.

Notice how, at a point, I started having just about the same numbers of wins and losses, then eventually I got a loss streak of 5. At that point, boredom and wunderwaffe's elo stabilizing sufficed for me to just drop the ladder. It was fun.

Wunderwaff-ing my way in the ladder got me Not Ranked with a rating of 1383.
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/24/2016 15:48:59

greatest ever
Level 39
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See what I mean, you can't even read english.

<----- greatest ever.
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/24/2016 18:33:16


knyte 
Level 58
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Sorry, I tend to mix up n00bs who cherry-pick weak opponents and pride themselves on their high winrates.
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/24/2016 18:39:09

Purple Illusions 
Level 50
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I thought the accounts with under 1500 elo were AI's.

Maybe I just expect too much from people.
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/25/2016 04:30:38


[TNW] Commander Vimes
Level 29
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Anyone else notice that arrow is pointing to the report button?

Edited 7/25/2016 04:31:10
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/26/2016 09:33:50

greatest ever
Level 39
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Anyone else see this forum is full of trolls?
Suggestion: Put the AI's on the Ladder: 7/26/2016 09:39:06


[TNW] Commander Vimes
Level 29
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@knyte: by definition, Wally Balls and greatest ever are not actually n00bs.

From dictionary.com:
a newbie, especially a person who is new to an online community and whose online participation and interactions display a lack of skill or knowledge

Wally Balls ain't new, and by extension neither is greatest ever
Posts 1 - 20 of 20   

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