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Debate Corner: Houston Vs. Caleb: 7/28/2016 07:25:06

[WOLF] The Conservative
Level 56
WARNING: On mobile, this thread will possibly resemble the Great Wall of China o.O

To make the introduction short, I was challenged to a debate with another WL player on Kik and since we could not fairly judge who won, we gave that honor to probably the most critical forum on the planet. Simply read the transcript and vote based on who best presented their argument, debate style, the most convincing, etc. It would be best to not vote based on who you politically agree with but if you feel strong enough then your gonna do it anyway. The topic is States Rights in America ( Were both American so it seemed to fit ) and yeah I know its kinda odd but lets face it, its much more peaceful when people judge the fight than fighting the fight.

Caleb: As a Libertarian I do not disagree with states rights. I find that usually people who support states rights overlook the fact that individual rights always trump that of the state and federal governments. The individual, as long as they do not threaten the safety and freedom of others, usually knows what's best for them and thus I believe that the individual has the right to decide because they have the best knowledge of their own situations and problems. Now the government will always have the right to step in if the safety of others surrounding the individual is threatened because of that individual’s actions. States rights do exist but not at the expense of the individual. That's why there is a bill of rights. So the federal government can protect the rights of individuals if the state refuses to do so.

    Houston: I slightly believe the same. But, I believe State Rights exist for people to have a  choice. For example, California is quite strict on gun laws. Texas is not. And likewise for  fireworks even. Giving people a choice to live around those who think the same is quite  necessary for a stable and friendly society. I wouldn't want to live in California, seeing as they  have quite strict laws on fireworks. This would be terrible. 

Caleb: The problem is when the majority of people in a state decide to strip away certain rights of the individual to fit their needs. Society does not trump the individual. That's why the 2015 SCOTUS ruling was so critical. It reaffirmed the rights of citizens that were being denied in half the nation. In short, the majority can not take away basic human rights simply because they want too. At one point, the majority of Americans supported slavery. Does that make it right? Of course not.

Houston: Times change, beliefs change. If you dislike your current state's position on any  matters, move to the next one who agrees with your ideals. Not all states are perfect, I  acknowledge this. But, in reality, nothing is. We make due with what we have. Slavery used to be favoured by most people in our country, but look at us now. We improve. We change things,  along with our beliefs. 

Caleb: You’re dodging my attack. You just stated the obvious. Everything goes through its own path, that's a given. The rights of the individual cannot wait for society to change its opinion. It also can't wait for a problem to stop. If people can find some random issue to deny basic human rights to a person, they always will. Nothing will ever change.


  Houston: Hmm, perhaps. So what would you do about this? Change the system, or abolish it?  And also, what are these "basic human rights"?   

  Caleb: The change we need is actual enforcement. States need to provide rights to their citizens without question or excuse. Basic human rights are outlined in the Bill of rights pretty well. Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The right to vote, the right to protect yourself, the right to practice your religion, the right to property etc. The fact that some states are still denying the right to marriage is outrageous

Houston: I agree. The states do need to quickly and efficiently make changes, where they need be. I still do believe, however, that state rights help like minded people find each other easily.
 State Rights are quite useful in our society today. It can stand for improvement, but in  the end, they are quite useful for our country as a whole.   

 Caleb: A nation that truly values freedom and liberty will not represent a country as a whole. Many issues in this world have started because nations as a whole decided to disrespect and attack everything decent, true, and beautiful in this world. The majority has the power to do everything it deems right except silence the minority. I believe states rights usually disregard the voices of those not cared about by the majority of society. A philosophy that puts importance on the fact that it does not represent the minority cannot be trusted. Might does not make right.

Link to poll:

Edited 7/28/2016 07:27:30
Debate Corner: Houston Vs. Caleb: 7/28/2016 07:34:32

[WOLF] The Conservative
Level 56
* my language was too strong to keep posted * ^

Edited 7/28/2016 07:41:36
Debate Corner: Houston Vs. Caleb: 7/28/2016 07:36:08

Major General Smedley Butler
Level 51

(I totally didn't laugh my arse off at that reaction tho)
Debate Corner: Houston Vs. Caleb: 7/28/2016 07:44:56

[WOLF] The Conservative
Level 56
But really, I'm never gonna get to sleep ever again LOL. What the heck was that?
Btw when I opened that I was sitting in the dark on a computer so that thing was covering my entire screen and I could not find the exit button for at least 2 minutes because it filled the entire thing so fully . I think I might have screamed too....

* makes point to never ever open up link from Semice again *

Edited 7/28/2016 07:48:41
Debate Corner: Houston Vs. Caleb: 7/28/2016 10:58:31

Level 56
right to marriage
You won the argument because the other guy was incompetent, but this one got my goat

EDIT: Ofc we have the right to marriage, but not necessarily GAY marriage

Edited 7/28/2016 10:59:01
Debate Corner: Houston Vs. Caleb: 7/28/2016 14:10:29

Level 60
Am I supposed to read that or wut?
Debate Corner: Houston Vs. Caleb: 7/28/2016 15:42:28

Level 57
for sure on the side of Houston.

Yes, i should have basic rights, but i also have the right to avoid others having freedom to do things i disagree with.

Some argue their right of gun ownership. I would argue that that right is potentially harmful to me, so i would gravitate towards a state which prohibits that right.
Debate Corner: Houston Vs. Caleb: 7/29/2016 02:23:40

Level 36
Nice debates voted for Caleb

Edited 7/29/2016 02:24:45
Debate Corner: Houston Vs. Caleb: 7/29/2016 02:26:00

Level 36
Also Jammy said the right to do what you want as long as it doesn't hurt them is a great thing to debate
Debate Corner: Houston Vs. Caleb: 7/29/2016 02:27:38

Level 36
Also on that issue of gay rights I think that if your a Christian you shouldn't be forced to sell a gay wedding cake or host a gay marriage, for those violate there religious liberty
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