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Strat 1v1: 8/1/2016 08:13:22

有史以来最伟大的
Level 29
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This account was originally made as a troll account of sorts. It's "Greatest Ever" written in Chinese, its purpose was to destroy Walsh in a 1v1 and rile him up. Walsh got suspended shortly after I made it. That aside, I have since decided to level the account till it is the level needed to play on the ladder and then join the 1v1 ladder with it and attempt to take rank 1.

I've played quite a bit on the ladder in the past, but never with anywhere near the amount of success I'd like (2000 rating is not the goal, 2300+ without stalling is).

I would very much appreciate playing against anyone who's both good at the current template and willing to analyze games and critique them.

I think one of my largest issues thus far has been that I play MD games like they are RT. I rtpically don't count, I don't track leftover placement enough to know how many armies my opponent has, where their armies should be, what turn they got every bonus they have, etc. I've attempted to do this some games with limited success, but it's usually more effort than I put into MD games. I am not opposed to putting that much effort into improving though if that is what is necessary.

That's certainly not my only issue though, I definitely pick bad at times, and need to overall become more consistent.
Strat 1v1: 8/1/2016 08:30:10

AI
Level 60
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play a game against me - if you can't defeat me there's no chance for you to reach 2300+ (even with help)
anyway I can do some analysis for you

Edited 8/1/2016 08:31:36
Strat 1v1: 8/1/2016 08:35:06

有史以来最伟大的
Level 29
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"play a game against me - if you can't defeat me there's no chance for you to reach 2300+ (even with help)"

I've already had ratings higher than your peak rating.

That doesn't mean I "can't" lose to you, but whether I am capable of beating you is not a question.

rouxburg defeated Buns157 11169027 5/18/2016 13:24:03 rouxburg: 1908

Were you to beat me that would mean nothing, players rated below you frequently defeat rank 1 ladder players.

That also doesn't mean you can't potentially spot flaws I make in games, I just find it silly that you suggest that if you beat me I'd be incapable of hitting 2300+.

Edited 8/1/2016 08:38:50
Strat 1v1: 8/1/2016 08:42:27


knyte 
Level 58
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Using the Elo model to approximate, AI at his ladder peak should be able to beat a 2300-rated player about 12% of the time. To hit a 99% win rate at 2300, you need to go down to about 1500. So actually I'm the one who can probably say "if I can beat you, you probably aren't 2300+ good."
Strat 1v1: 8/1/2016 08:43:21

AI
Level 60
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just invite me to a game and we'll see :D
It wasn't meant to be offense

@knyte: where do you get that 12% from?

Edited 8/1/2016 08:44:03
Strat 1v1: 8/1/2016 08:57:14


knyte 
Level 58
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Elo model (might work differently for Bayeselo). A 346 point difference yields an 88% win rate for the overdog.
Strat 1v1: 8/1/2016 09:13:39

Pulsey
Level 56
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If you lose to a 1954 in your initial 15 game run, there's very little chance you'll be hitting 2300+ without stalling.
Strat 1v1: 8/1/2016 09:22:54

AI
Level 60
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Thank you, that's what I was thinking :)
Strat 1v1: 8/1/2016 17:30:02


Timinator 
Level 62
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I rtpically don't count, I don't track leftover placement enough to know how many armies my opponent has, where their armies should be, what turn they got every bonus they have, etc.


That's what i usually do too. works for me most of the time
Strat 1v1: 8/1/2016 17:37:54

有史以来最伟大的
Level 29
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I think it's what most people do. I only really know 2-3 players that do calculate all of that, but I find the difference between when they do so and when they don't other doing so are huge.

ie. ZeroBlindDragon calculates all of that, and is much better at MD than RT. Summer calculates it, sometimes, and when she does, she does far far better than when she plays off pure instinct or plays RT.
- hidden post by AWESOMEGUY
Strat 1v1: 8/1/2016 21:34:48


TBest 
Level 59
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I don't think 2300+ is possible purely depending on skills. In my opinion a 1900 can beat a 2300 just by getting lucky on picks. So you need luck (or lack of unluck) to hit that sweet number. That being said, part of the problem with 2300 is the ladder system itself. When I did my run a little while ago, my picking was focused on reducing the possibility if "unluck" rather then what was the best picks. For example I tried to avoid having two territories bordering after picks.

Likely you will have a bunch of 19 and 18 hundreds opponents. What you need is to play against as many of 2k + as possible. At that rating the level of risk/reward is more in your favor. (Wins gives more, loss hurts less)

In order to get 2300+ i think you need a record of something like 27-3. (assuming same as Buns opponents) I don't think that is possible, without having luck on your side. The way I read it you have already reached top 5 on another account. So the skill is not really the issue. If you just count the games out/use custom scenario then you are already good enough to reach 2300+. (Along with many others as well. However being good enough =/= being able too :P )

DISCLAIMER: Some of the information below deals with gaming the system/cheating. If you decide to use it the wrong way, keep in mind that actual penalties exist (and have been enforced) for cheating on ladders. I strongly advise that you don't use the information below to cheat on ladders and instead use it as a toolkit to recognize when your opponents may be cheating and report them.

Recognizing when your opponent is exploiting the ladder

Pulsey's guide: https://www.warlight.net/Forum/44437-guide-ladder1-stall-boot-choose-opponent-etc

Qi's guide: https://www.warlight.net/Forum/28007-manipulate-ladder-system


Don't read them to cheat/stall, but to understand that some things is good for getting a high rating. It is not really deepening on skills.

(you are ofc welcome to prove me wrong, and get 2300+ while having more then 50 unexpired games.

Edited 8/1/2016 21:41:21
Strat 1v1: 8/1/2016 21:47:21

有史以来最伟大的
Level 29
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My goal is to improve. Not to get a high rating. That is a side effect. Not interested in stalling to get a higher rating than I deserve.

I can currently get top 10 without stalling, most likely rank 1 (top 3 for sure) if I do stall. That is irrelevant to me, it's not something I will ever even debate doing.

Edited 8/1/2016 21:48:16
Strat 1v1: 8/1/2016 21:59:27


Green Turtle 
Level 61
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If you lose to a 1954 in your initial 15 game run, there's very little chance you'll be hitting 2300+ without stalling


little chance only for those whose "true" rating is below 2300 and who needs luck to hit 2300. Not an issue for those whose "true" rating is 2300+.

I am way below 2300, but I know the rating dynamics around 1800. I used to change my account frequently before starting using this one. Each time I started a new run on RT ladder, my rating stabilized roughly the in same range in the long run (1700-1900). I didn't worry about not being able to reach 1700 after being booted against a <1000 in my first 15 games. It just prolong the stabilization process of my rating.

I guess the same thing can be said about 2300. Had my "true" rating been 2400, I wouldn't worry about not being able to hit 2300 after losing to a beginner in my first 15 games.
Strat 1v1: 8/1/2016 22:03:20


Beren • apex 
Level 62
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If you want to get better and again a deservedly high rating, just play the ladder.

If you want to get an undeserved high rating, stall.

Playing the ladder in fits and starts and restarting runs on different alts accomplishes neither.

Edited 8/1/2016 22:06:21
Strat 1v1: 8/1/2016 22:32:09


TBest 
Level 59
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since noone really got my point.

If 2500 is perfect rating, with perfect play. Absulutely no misstakes.

Then I dont think 2500 (or 2400) can be achived. Becouse the skill level of 2150+ is so close to perfect play that your win % will never be good enogh. You can ofc get lucky and have only won games, but in the top of the ladder the misstakes are not really there. Hence luck decides.

There is a resone that stalling was a big thing on the ladders. It was the best way to get a high rating.

PS, the numbers are a bit arbitary since rating inflation and such can happen. But think of it as how often a 99% perfect player beats a 100% perfect player. It is very close to a 50/50 score between the two.
Strat 1v1: 8/2/2016 03:46:56


DerWyyy
Level 55
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This account was originally made as a troll account of sorts. It's "Greatest Ever" written in Chinese,

*sighs* great, the guy with 94% win rate, YET claims hes the greatest ever when we all confirmed there were infact ppl with better win rate...

most likely rank 1 (top 3 for sure

then why are you asking for advice...?!?
Strat 1v1: 8/2/2016 04:16:43


[IM]YouMustBeKidding
Level 57
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@Good Kid aka chinese letter guy (I just assume you are the guy who argued with the great Wally Balls in his most funny thread): At first step I recommend you succeeding your 1994 peak (with neither stalling nor going for a run or "going for a run with a tini tiny bit of stalling") and as second step you can then attack a legitimate the 2300 rating.
Strat 1v1: 8/2/2016 05:03:44

Omniscient 
Level 56
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1994 will be broken within ~48 hours.

Set to debut around 2070. And yes, that's with no stalling.
Strat 1v1: 8/2/2016 07:07:48


knyte 
Level 58
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Is rouxburg a Nauz alt? I thought he was just using rouxburg's win against Buns to illustrate that you can lose to a 1900-rated player and still break 2300.
Strat 1v1: 8/2/2016 07:08:32

有史以来最伟大的
Level 29
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Reading comprehension failure. He was simply an example of a low rated player beating rank 1, thus proving anyone decent can beat anyone.

1 v 1 ladder: Not Ranked with a rating of 1947.

is me, I have three games at the moment that I feel confidently "ahead" in, which will raise that to ~2060ish. I'm nowhere near 2300 now, but I don't think aiming for it is setting my hopes too high.

If I wanted to stall to 2300, I could already pull it off IMO with a bit of luck, but I don't.

Edited 8/2/2016 07:10:12
Strat 1v1: 8/2/2016 09:55:04


Benjamin628 
Level 59
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What I think is funny is how during the "luck setting" phase, people got much higher ratings:

Latnox 2552
Piggy 2400s
Belzebu 2400s
Strat 1v1: 8/2/2016 10:51:46

rouxburg
Level 59
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Well I'm not Nauz. And also Semice, it was a boot win...
Strat 1v1: 8/2/2016 11:40:48

Pulsey
Level 56
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After reading both pages, I have to agree with Tbest.

Assuming old ladder settings, too much is dependent on luck - getting first pick, first order, getting the crucial 3v2, plus the rock-papers-scissors nature of picking approaches on a map . At a high rating, picks will be very good and knowledge of play will be near perfect, usually its the little bit of skill consistency and luck that makes the difference.
Strat 1v1: 8/2/2016 19:41:30


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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I guess that being at the top is also about being unpredictable too. Buns often does weird things most wouldnt expect him to do.
Strat 1v1: 8/4/2016 04:06:39

Omniscient 
Level 56
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"1994 will be broken within ~48 hours.

Set to debut around 2070. And yes, that's with no stalling."

2075 exactly.

I have 3 losses, I'm not sure hitting 2300 with those 3 losses, even if I won my next 10 games in a row would be feasible, but I'll keep playing this account and try to raise current rating to at least 2200. Might try a fresh start at that point and give 2300 a real attempt. This time I didn't even expect to hit top 10 so am perfectly happy with the rank 7 I currently have.

Edited 8/4/2016 04:08:55
Strat 1v1: 8/4/2016 04:10:03

rouxburg
Level 59
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You should check what Beren just said.

Edited 8/4/2016 04:10:16
Strat 1v1: 8/4/2016 04:53:14

Omniscient 
Level 56
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What Beren said is what Beren always says.

It's not particularly new or necessarily right though. Old games hold down ratings for a long time, it's hard to track improvement over time when you reach the point that wins vs. good opponents raise rating by 2-3, and wins vs. bad opponents (read: most opponents) don't raise your rating at all.

Know what raises buns rating frequently? Wins expiring.

The real problem IMO is the awful matchmaking code. The range of people you can be matched vs. is much too large. A smaller range would result in a much better ladder.

Firstly, the rise would be slower. You wouldn't be able to play a 1800 rated player after 3 games and then start playing 2,000's. You'd gradually play higher and higher ratings if you continued winning. Secondly, when you are at the top of the ladder you wouldn't be getting matchups that are lose-lose in nature. Win, get mildly punished, lose, get totally destroyed.

If you play 50 games, and wind up 2100, and then join with a different account and are 2300+ when it hits the 50 game marker I don't feel that you got an undeservedly high rating by doing so, you got the rating your current play dictates rather than a rating influenced by how well you played months beforehand.

Edited 8/4/2016 05:02:33
Strat 1v1: 8/4/2016 05:33:35

rouxburg
Level 59
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Well, everybody knows that 1v1 ladder rating system sucks. But many people play under that condition (look at HBB), so that's the only way to play it.
Strat 1v1: 8/4/2016 09:48:33

Omniscient 
Level 56
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I also do not feel that 2150+ is anywhere near as flawless as TBest makes it out to be. I am 19-3 with over 2100 rating right now, and of those 19 wins, only 1 is what I'd consider an error-free game. Even then people would likely make valid arguments that there were better picks than mine - and they'd probably be right.

If I could remove even just the "large" errors from my gameplay completely I think I'd be able to crack 2600.

Latnox went over 2550, if you think his games were error-free you're grossly mistaken.

And yes, this is hypothetical, I am not claiming I will ever eliminate all major errors or hit 2500.

Edited 8/4/2016 09:51:03
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