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Triple Picking: 8/11/2016 11:35:13


[TNW] Commander Vimes
Level 37
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What, exactly, is wrong with triple picking? I've never done it because I read people on the forums saying how bad it is, but I have been beaten with it several times?
How do I counter it?
Triple Picking: 8/11/2016 11:56:20


TBest 
Level 60
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try it and you will find out.

(given the perfect mixed strategy, triple picking is occasionally right thing to do)

all relative to the settings ofc.
Triple Picking: 8/11/2016 12:16:58


TheRiverStyxie 
Level 60
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It will depend on the template as to how viable a triple pick might be but lets talk about the 1v1 ladder template (strat mme aka the auto game template)

The main benefit to triple picking is fast early income, usually a large first turn bonus which would be advantageous if you meet the enemy in the next 1-2 turns as you will probably have an income advantage.

However triple picking isn't generally a good idea due to all your income being in one area, meaning once your enemy has found one bonus, he's found them all. From here it's usually very easy for your opponent to break all bonuses while expanding safely elsewhere. He is threatening all your income and you are threatening none of his.

Triple picks ie if you pick a large bonus or an area as your 1 2 3, is risky as if your opponent picks just one of those and gets it, he has rendered two of your picks useless with just one of his and you only have one safe area with your other pick to expand in while he has 2 other areas to expand in.

Countering a triple pick would require you to pick the three territories as either your 3 4 5 or your 4 5 6 or you could risk putting your first pick there and hope you get first pick. If you go 3 4 5 on the triple pick, you are guaranteed at least 1 start there, however if you get your 3 and 5 or your 3 and 4 or your 4 and 5, you are again at a disadvantage since that means your opponent has one pick there which renders your two picks useless since you can't expand safely. If you pick the area as 4 5 6 you risk not getting any picks there as you could get your 1 2 3.

Another thing you can do to counter a viable triple pick, is to pick another territory that isn't in the triple pick area but that borders it as either your 1 2 or 3 to guarantee a presence there. Just make sure it is an efficient bonus that you're picking, ie that you can take it in 2 turns or less or that it doesn't have a lot of territories to take for the value of the bonus compared to other bonuses of the same value on the board. For instance don't pick a 3 bonus if it is more than 4 territories as this would be an inefficient bonus and would hamper your expansion.
Triple Picking: 8/11/2016 12:22:52


master of desaster 
Level 65
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Triplepicking is a better strategy if the rounding mode isn't sr but wr. If expanding is more costly having a high early income is super important. Often more important than coverage.

On sr, you can overcome your opponents income easier by just expanding like crazy while you try to flank his bonuses. Early income loses power here
Triple Picking: 8/11/2016 15:14:40


Buns157 
Level 67
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Styxie you're wrong about pick order. If you 3 4 5 a triple pick you can lose all 3 picks.
Triple Picking: 8/11/2016 18:35:06

Omniscient 
Level 56
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How to pick a triple pick map:

https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=11746847

3/4/5 can work too, like this: https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=11740491

I still expected the triple pick that map, just didn't rely on getting part of it to beat it.

But yes, the second game is an example of 3/4/5 not guaranteeing you anything there. It's why 3/4/5/6'ed the area. If you get 1st pick you get 1, they get 1/2 you get 2, and something in their triple. But if they got first pick, they get 1, you get 1/2, they get 2/3, you're getting 6, fully missing their triple.

Edited 8/11/2016 18:37:23
Triple Picking: 8/11/2016 19:39:58

player12345
Level 61
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Styxie: very well written and useful.

Buns157 is correct. 3 4 5 does not guarantee a spot. Say the opponent gets first spot with their 1 in the triple zone. Say you then get your 1 2 away from the triple zone. The opponent can now fill up the triple zone with their 2 3.

2 3 4 and 2 3 5 both guarantee a spot. 1 2 3 and even 1 2 guarantee a spot.

>>>>>>>>>>>
Here's an addition to Styxie's info.

Triple picking rarely gives good income beyond turn 2 and may not give an income advantage at any time (depending on wasteland/warlord configuration).

On the 1v1 ladder template (MME 0% SR, 4 armies per territory, 5 income base) a 4 bonus is the best FTB (first turn bonus) triple picking can give you. You can not get a 5 bonus like Australia on the first turn.

With only 1 spot in Australia it's possible to complete it on turn 2--the same as a triple pick(!). However, triple picking Australia on the right map configuration (aka the Boston triple) can lead to a good turn 3 income if it's not countered.

In general, for a potential set of picks it's helpful to figure out the best case income for turns 1,2,3 (before the first encounter). Then you can do a risk/reward analysis. On the 1v1 ladder template, triple picks are usually high risk and low reward.

Edited 8/12/2016 03:23:51
Triple Picking: 8/11/2016 20:14:42


[TNW] Commander Vimes
Level 37
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Styxie, that advice about picking was very intelligent but completely useless. It's impossible to know where the triple pick is going to be.
I think the screw-up in this game was letting the other guy take out my border bonus.
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=11747517
Triple Picking: 8/11/2016 20:35:39


Norman 
Level 57
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Oh boy. I guess it's indeed impossible to tell where "Zaphod Beeblebrox" will place his picks.
Triple Picking: 8/11/2016 20:54:38

Omniscient 
Level 56
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"It's impossible to know where the triple pick is going to be."

No, it's not. Look at the warlords. Decide what triple pick options there are. Check players past games if it's a ladder game, if not a ladder game, assume if they have a low winrate that they may triple pick. Pick to beat the triple pick.


In your scenario you not only gave him a triple pick, you gave him a ftb.


"I think the screw-up in this game was letting the other guy take out my border bonus."

You played bad from the word go.

Here's how you should play this game after picks, to win, easily.


Turn 1: Deploy 3 to Antarctica, hit 3v2 to both Novo and Scott. Hit Sweden 3v2. Deploy 2 to Indonesia, hit Southeast Asia final order.

Turn 2: Move leftovers in Antarctica back to South Pole, deploy 5 in Scandinavia, finish taking Scandinavia. Just sit in Southeast Asia.

Turn 3: Deploy 1 in Antarctica, 7 in Southeast Asia, finish taking Antarctica, the game is now won. Whether you attack depends on what he's done the first two turns, but losing from this point on is nearly impossible.

There wasn't "a screwup", it was multiple errors, but if I had to summarize it as concisely as posible it'd be: Play more aggressively.

Edited 8/11/2016 20:56:00
Triple Picking: 8/11/2016 21:31:28


Buns157 
Level 67
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but completely useless.


Bit harsh, especially when its someone trying to help you. Her advice besides the picking order was right.

Also if you think its impossible to know where your opponent is likely to triple pick then maybe you need to learn what makes good picks in general first.
- hidden post by player12345
- hidden post by Platinum
- hidden post by an annoyance
- hidden post by Apollo
- hidden post by Dogberry
- hidden post by player12345
Triple Picking: 8/12/2016 04:21:22

Omniscient 
Level 56
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How about we not spam in the strategy forum?
Triple Picking: 8/12/2016 04:52:24


AWESOMEGUY 
Level 63
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Omniscient III: Return of the Ban Hammer

Triple-picking suxx

Strategy!
Triple Picking: 8/12/2016 05:50:29


[TNW] Commander Vimes
Level 37
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In my defense, it was addressing the picking advice, not the general advice, which was very good.

Thank you to all, especially Omniscient and Styxie
Triple Picking: 8/12/2016 06:38:50


SuperGamerz 
Level 58
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1v1: 6 / 38 (16%)


You have alot to learn.

Trust these guys, they helped me improve a ton over the past month, and I'm so happy they did.

P.S. If all those who helped me see this, thanks :)
Triple Picking: 8/12/2016 10:21:24


Taran
Level 56
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As ^ said, you can always improve.
If you didn't know, Zapdad Beetlebronx, the clan has started to do tournaments on (hopefully) more strategic templates. Although you may not get the same experience playing against clan members as you would against more experienced players, practice is practice. Keep an eye out for them!
Triple Picking: 8/12/2016 13:33:23

Omniscient 
Level 56
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Only played you once Taran, but it was a good game. I think you're underselling yourself tbh.
Triple Picking: 8/13/2016 01:51:11


Taran
Level 56
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Thanks?

What account was it that I played against, or do you not want to say?
Triple Picking: 8/13/2016 03:20:37


[TNW] Commander Vimes
Level 37
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Yes, I am wanting to improve. My win-rate is shit, but hopefully it'll improve as I do.
Some more questions:
@Norman: what was wrong with my picks?
@Everyone: when is it a good idea to pick 5s or double pick?
Triple Picking: 8/13/2016 03:25:08

Nauzhror 
Level 56
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Everything was wrong with your picks. The AI'd make better picks.

Your first 2 pick were okay. Maybe even first 3. The 4th, 5th, and 6th were straight terrible.

A wastelanded North Africa? Seriously? 3 turn West and East Africas? No. Just no.

5's are great whenever it's turn 2 10 income, or coupled with 2 3 income bonuses for turn 3 16 income. Double picks are only great when they allow turn 2 12 income. A double pick on a 4 income bonus, and a pick on a 3 income bonus, or the reverse allows turn 2 12 income.

Edited 8/13/2016 03:26:10
Triple Picking: 8/13/2016 03:41:45


[TNW] Commander Vimes
Level 37
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Yeah I had a brainfade and didn't see the wastelands in North Africa. I'm not sure what went wrong with the others as well.
Thanks for taking your time to answer me, highly appreciated.
Triple Picking: 8/13/2016 03:49:51


TheRiverStyxie 
Level 60
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What Nauz means about west and east africa on that board being bad, is that while normally both are good bonuses, where the starting territories are, on them both means that you can't complete them in 2 turns, rather it takes 3 turns to complete, making them inefficient.

Edited 8/13/2016 03:51:31
Triple Picking: 8/13/2016 04:21:28


[TNW] Commander Vimes
Level 37
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So West US, Central America, and Caucasus as 3,4,5?
Triple Picking: 8/13/2016 08:02:47


Sara C
Level 57
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Um... no.

Unless it is used to destroy/counter a double/triple pick, West US and Caucasus should not be picked in general.

This is because in west US the territory/income ratio is 7:5, which is higher than many other bonuses worth 5 armies. This means you have to use more armies to conquer a bonus of the same value. A small difference like this can cost you a victory in a short game, especially when the bonus is a high valued one.

West US has no starter value in your game.

Caucasus although has a 6:5 territory/income ratio, it is notorious for being hard to defend because it borders many other bonuses and all 6 territories in it is bordered by another bonus.

In your scenario, Caucasus is even worse as the 5th pick. Not only because it isn't defensive, it also isn't a worthy offensive territory.

Here are the three scenarios:

1. Since it is the 5th pick, chances are you will receive the top 4 of your picks instead, so you will not get it.
2. Since it is the 5th pick, if your opponent does a triple pick as shown he would pick Caucasus 1-3 (even if you picked the other two 1-2. However if this happens you still break the triple pick). You will not get it.
3. If he does not make the triple pick causing you to get Caucasus, it is even worse as it takes 3 turns for you to complete the bonus which can be easily broken.

Central America however, is quite a good spot to be picked. Not really because it can be used to accomplish 2 bonuses of 3 armies in turn 2 but because of its safe position.

Your distribution was interesting as it offers 2 double picks of 3-bonuses and 1 triple pick of West China. It could be a hard fight if both of you had 1 territory in all three areas.

This is what I would pick (They might not be the best picks, please educate me):

Myanmar-Cuba-Argentina-Norway-Malaysia-Moscow

And I can't really tell you what to do since there are too many possibilities.

But anyway lesson learnt for you.

Edited 8/13/2016 08:35:12
Posts 1 - 30 of 34   1  2  Next >>   

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