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An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 13:42:45


Bactrian Emperor
Level 12
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No, I'm not here to debate the existence of the Holocaust, although there is evidence for it. This thread is for the countries that outlaw Holocaust denial.

I understand why; the Holocaust did happen, and if you have people thinking "let's finish what Hitler started", that's a problem. However, its been over 70 years. I think, Germany, you've successfully detached yourself from the Third Reich. The fact that countries are still licking the boot of Holocaust Reparations is disgusting. My grandfather's parents were able to be saved from death at Dachau. My grandfather says that even a quarter of what has been done for the Jews since them as "reparations" would have been good enough. Even the Jewish people who live in my area are sick and tired of it, partially because they feel that they have forgiven the Germans, but the Germans still go head over heel for them.
The main issue, though, is freedom of speech. I'm willing to debate Holocaust deniers, because I'm willing to respect their views. Shutting them down only furthers their point.
Same with the Swastika. It has dozens of meanings outside of the Nazi party, yet you hardly see it in some areas. If you want to have a Swastika as your profile image, go ahead. If you want to post images of gassing Jews, be my guest.

As long as you don't go to the extent of physically attacking Jews saying "things should go back to the way they were", I'm willing to stand by your side. I think you're wrong, but I'm willing to stand with you against censorship. I want my Hearts of Iron games to show Swastikas. If you're willing to show the
Hammer and Sickle, which has been flown in the Soviet Union, a country which had a equally bad history as the Nazi regime, why can't you show the Swastika?
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 14:00:36


Zephyrum 
Level 60
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I want my Hearts of Iron games to show Swastikas. If you're willing to show the
Hammer and Sickle, which has been flown in the Soviet Union, a country which had a equally bad history as the Nazi regime, why can't you show the Swastika?


Big time true story there. Fuckin' ell, both of them are mass murderers, but because one actually won the war, it's allowed?

Anyhow, remove yourself while you still can. Sensible debaters shouldn't be in here. You're in the wrong neighborhood...
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 14:01:31


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 50
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I don't believe that banning Nazi symbols reduce the amount of Nazism.

Anti-Judaism is some anti-intellectual and irrational ideology.

Edited 8/25/2016 14:02:34
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 14:12:18


Benjamin628 
Level 59
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Big time true story there. Fuckin' ell, both of them are mass murderers, but because one actually won the war, it's allowed?


Must have been a pretty warm war that the Soviets won...

Edited 8/25/2016 14:12:31
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 14:45:08


Zephyrum 
Level 60
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The cold war wasn't even a war. It was the equivalent of a inter-national doodle measurement contest.
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 15:21:38


Paugers
Level 41
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The cold war wasn't even a war. It was the equivalent of a inter-national doodle measurement contest.

Korea? Vietnam? Afghanistan? There was no major interaction between super powers, but there was definitely war.
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 15:24:00


Zephyrum 
Level 60
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Korean War. Vietnam War. Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Different names, because they are different armed conflicts. Not one single super massive war. The cold war is just the fancy name for, as I said, doodle measurement contest.
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 15:25:50


Paugers
Level 41
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The Cold War is a name for the entire events of 1950 (or so)-1985 (or so). It was a very serious conflict, not one to be considered a joke, Zeph.
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 15:33:32

[FEL]Chatul
Level 22
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It was a war. Many died in proxy conflicts though not everything was intense everywhere.

Edited 8/25/2016 15:33:56
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 20:33:50


Spenglerian Traditionalist
Level 47
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There is no physical evidence to support the holohoax
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 21:01:06


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Same with the Swastika. It has dozens of meanings outside of the Nazi party, yet you hardly see it in some areas.


It had little meaning in Europe, just as a good luck sign before the Great War.

I want my Hearts of Iron games to show Swastikas.


Answer: don't play terrible games. Wolfenstein is not squeamish with the flags and the Hitler hail, that's why it was banned in Germany until a few years ago.

If you're willing to show the Hammer and Sickle, which has been flown in the Soviet Union, a country which had a equally bad history as the Nazi regime, why can't you show the Swastika?


Ah, so you uphold Hungarian government, which bans both?

Also, Soviet past did not involve genocide of millions and had way less discrimination against ethnicities (that's what they tried to end) than most every other country at the time. British and American dirty flags also should be taken out for their millions of killings and long past of discrimination.

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6844/103548746.2b/0_c6f2d_c4d6620b_orig.jpg (American polit - inside and outside).
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 21:05:30


Spenglerian Traditionalist
Level 47
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''Soviet past did not involve genocide of millions''

topkek
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 21:11:27


Belgian Gentleman
Level 55
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Holodomor Ukraine between 2.5- 3.9 million deaths

No genocide of millions huh?
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 21:27:25


Zephyrum 
Level 60
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Most flags represent that of a state that committed genocide. Hell, my own flag does. Where do you think the natives are, enclaved in the amazon? Pffft. Dead. Buried. On fire. Some hillbillies in the center-west region still do it by the day.

The thing about the societs is that they genocided themselves rather than other ethnicities in Stalin's depopulation thingy and the massive witch hunt for spies.
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 21:27:29


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Holodmor can be seen as genocide, but it's more colossal mismanagement and lack of help than anything else. It wasn't just in Ukraine, it was in Russia, it was in Belarus. About 7 million folk died in all, most not Ukrainian. Like the Irish hunger, it's seen in 3 lights:

*Just an unlucky year for the
*Russian mismanagement along with lack of help sent.
*Russians genocide Ukrainians.

I don't think it's genocide when the country is led by a Kartvelian who killed many Russians and Ukrainians.
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 21:37:15


Belgian Gentleman
Level 55
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had way less discrimination against ethnicities (that's what they tried to end) than most every other country at the time.

Paid for by the Belarussian communist party. yet mass deportations of Germans,Poles,Tartarians,Ukranians and putting new ethnicities in new territories is not against discrimination at all. Ethnic deportation is the reason why Belarus is Pole-Free. And you're claiming they were against it? Let me seperate you and your neighbourhood and put you far,far away in North Kazakhstan so we can repopulate those areas with whites.
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 21:43:11


Belgian Gentleman
Level 55
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And what about religious discrimination and demolishing thousands of worshipping places ir in some places where they abolished it completely?

Also, sucks to be a farmer in the USSR especially in the Volga region when you risk getting deportated
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 21:52:32


OxTheAutist 
Level 58
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+1 Everything OP said. Well articulated thoughts.
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 21:53:38


GeneralPE
Level 56
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Soviet past did not involve genocide of millions and had way less discrimination against ethnicities (that's what they tried to end) than most every other country at the time.

Austistic
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 21:58:53


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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yet mass deportations of Germans,Poles,Tartarians,Ukranians and putting new ethnicities in new territories is not against discrimination at all.


I don't deny that Stalinist Soviet rule liked "collective punishment", by policy, lying about a crime that you did, and then later found it that you did lie and did the crime often meant killings of the whole core family, hanging on what the crime was.

But was it better than what other big countries were doing? Actual genocide of the last indigenous Americans, and later on, forced assimilation, seperation of families, castrations almost to the 1970s? The Mau Mau rebellion, in which Barack Obama's own grandfather was gruesomely killed and torture was systemic? Or in French empire, where Africans were « sujets, pas citoyens » and had no shielding of the law?

And what about religious discrimination and demolishing thousands of worshipping places ir in some places where they abolished it completely?


Islaam was much more allowed in the Soviet rule than the Tsar rule. Laws in Muslim majority lands were often put to Islaamic religous law. As for Christianity, yes this was worse under the Soviet Band, since it was stripped of any strength and privileges they had before, and actively discouraged it. As for Judaism - now folk weren't thought so much of a plague as before and could actually move and be shielded by the law and not have pogromy on them.

Edited 8/25/2016 22:11:33
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 22:06:26


Belgian Gentleman
Level 55
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your words sounded very convenient until..

The Mau Mau rebellion, in which Barack Obama's own grandfather was gruesomely killed and torture was systemic?


Yeah
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 22:14:23


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/deadlineusa/2008/dec/03/obama-grandfather-maumau-torture

Just look it up, you'll find way more than just this. And documents about it are to this day still being withheld by the British government. Awful.

http://gorod.tomsk.ru/2007/jul/anti_usa21.jpg

Edited 8/25/2016 22:46:08
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 22:43:57


Belgian Gentleman
Level 55
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Aight you might have an actual point on that but telling us that the soviet gouverment was not involved in the holodomor is beyond my opinion.
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 23:29:55


BUFFALO
Level 43
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what about isis flag?
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/25/2016 23:43:50


Spenglerian Traditionalist
Level 47
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ooga booga ackbar
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/26/2016 01:17:37


Bactrian Emperor
Level 12
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No, both flags should be displayed. Both are symbols of a time gone by. You can't change the past, but you can make sure it's not forgotten.
Besides, Germans can fly the Prussian and Imperial German flags, past symbols of their nation. As long as you understand the people who flew that flag, and what they stood for, cover your house in a Swastika for all I care.
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/26/2016 02:35:36


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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telling us that the soviet gouverment was not involved in the holodomor is beyond my opinion.


Where did I said this?

Both are symbols of a time gone by.


Not the British one, I'm afraid.
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/26/2016 08:19:31


Belgian Gentleman
Level 55
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Also, Soviet past did not involve genocide of millions
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/26/2016 22:29:57


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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it is not a genocide
An End to Holocaust Denial laws & Nazi Stuff: 8/26/2016 22:50:34


Belgian Gentleman
Level 55
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As I said your point of view is beyond my opinion.
Posts 1 - 30 of 34   1  2  Next >>   

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