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"Funny enough, government is the biggest polluter": 8/31/2016 17:21:57


Paugers
Level 41
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(NOTE: This thread was created in response to MGSB's response to my statement that capitalism is the cause of the deterioration of our environment, sadly the original thread having to do with presidential candidate Jill Stein was completely thrown off topic and become a shit storm of racism and Islamic propaganda)

In the thread, MGSB linked an article pertaining to the largest polluters in the world as he believes that too much government is 'bad' (simplified of course) and I am an advocate for larger governments, in addition to this he is pro-capitalism where as I think it is an outdated system in need of great regulation (no this is not a flip flop, ask Karl and Caleb, I've always been pro-big government).

The link to the article: https://fee.org/articles/governments-are-the-worst-violators-of-pollution-laws/

First of all, I want to say I do not disagree with this article, I think our (America's) government is corrupt, badly designed and not set up to go along with innovation at all which is how the founding Father's intended it to be. They likely feared that without set laws to change how the government acts so that their values such as personal and religious freedom would be under threat to be attacked as they were in Europe. However, as a result the government at large is unable to act quickly and resolve mistakes that it may have made with an example being that it took years to legalize gay marriage.
However, getting back to where I was, the government is a complete mess and this mostly comes from the fact that our 'leaders' have their values twisted thanks to (again) the pro-capitalist set up of America, where the 1% and their companies can make "donations" to politicians so that these congressmen may enact bills in their name. This constant focus on "Hey, let's buy a new big toy so Boeing makes a few million bucks" draws public and uncorrupted politician's attention away from the important problems that tax payer's money should be go towards such as perfecting our energy sector and making our basic resources public rather than private and available to be raped by the newest shiny haired CEO looking to make a buck.
"Funny enough, government is the biggest polluter": 8/31/2016 18:00:22


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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I almost completely agree with a thread from Paugers, that's a new one :)


America's political and economic system need a lot of reform, even though I'm not sure if you need a bigger government, but just one that spends it's money more efficiently and stop wasting billions of dollars in corporate welfare as well as in the military.

I've read an article saying that 25% of the money spent in the US army is in fact wasted or lost in some way (inefficiency, some useless personel, actual disapearing of money (corruption? or aliens? lol) and others,...). The US military if gone through an efficiency reform, could spend 25% less whithout losing any strenght; that'd be more than a hundred billion dollars saved to taxpayer pockets.
"Funny enough, government is the biggest polluter": 8/31/2016 18:04:08


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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However, getting back to where I was, the government is a complete mess and this mostly comes from the fact that our 'leaders' have their values twisted thanks to (again) the pro-capitalist set up of America, where the 1% and their companies can make "donations" to politicians so that these congressmen may enact bills in their name.

The government isn't filled with capitalists, it's filled with progressives that want to use government to it's fullest extent to do "good". These politicians have no god d**n idea what they're doing so they do idiotic crap like lowering mortgages for "affordable housing", doing welfare, and sending foreign aid everywhere. This of course ruins a lot of stuff, so in their benevolence, they try to fix the problems they create, and that's what you're proposing.

This constant focus on "Hey, let's buy a new big toy so Boeing makes a few million bucks"

The government shouldn't be able to afford new planes

that tax payer's money

And to the left , such a hard thing to accept so I'll say it one more time, taxation is theft


The US military if gone through an efficiency reform, could spend 25% less whithout losing any strenght; that'd be more than a hundred billion dollars saved to taxpayer pockets.

The US military actually spends trillions, there was an audit a while back.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN10U1IG
"Funny enough, government is the biggest polluter": 8/31/2016 18:13:10


Paugers
Level 41
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The government isn't filled with capitalists

Strange considering the fact that Hillary Clinton is funded by one of the greatest perpetrators of capitalist crimes, called Wall Street and her companies.

Here is an article listing how many millionaires there are in Congress in 2012:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-is-congress-a-millionaires-club/

One of them happens to be John Kerry, one of the most richest I may add, and our current secretary of state.

These politicians have no god d**n idea what they're doing so they do idiotic crap like lowering mortgages for "affordable housing", doing welfare, and sending foreign aid everywhere.

Did I say that the current politicians are doing well? I despise the current government and believe in its complete reform, however, I completely support sending aid to nations that need it.

Edited 8/31/2016 18:20:27
"Funny enough, government is the biggest polluter": 8/31/2016 18:18:59


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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Strange consider the fact that Hillary Clinton is funded by one of the greatest perpetrators of capitalist crimes, called Wall Street and her companies.

Strange considering that the government regularly bails out Wall Street, making it decidedly not capitalist.

One of them happens to be John Kerry, one of the most richest I may add, and our current secretary of state.

So Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler and FDR were all capitalists because they were rich?

however, I completely support sending aid to nations that need it.

You're sending money to corrupt governments, not the folk of that country.
"Funny enough, government is the biggest polluter": 8/31/2016 18:25:27


Paugers
Level 41
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Strange considering that the government regularly bails out Wall Street, making it decidedly not capitalist.

It's certainly not a socialist economy and is considerably similar to capitalist economic system in which the means of production are privately controlled and economic growth is based on private profit and reinvestment into the private sector.

So Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler and FDR were all capitalists because they were rich?

I never said they were or weren't. Don't put words in my mouth.

My opinions on this subject are unorganized, it shall be declared another time.
"Funny enough, government is the biggest polluter": 8/31/2016 20:10:43


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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It's certainly not a socialist economy and is considerably similar to capitalist economic system in which the means of production are privately controlled and economic growth is based on private profit and reinvestment into the private sector.

It's a corporatist system. The government controls the economy with cartels.

I never said they were or weren't. Don't put words in my mouth.

Pardon, but the point was made. Being rich doesn't make you a capitalist.
"Funny enough, government is the biggest polluter": 8/31/2016 22:19:28


Paugers
Level 41
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It's a corporatist system. The government controls the economy with cartels.

corporatism

n.
Political / Economic system in which power is exercised through large organizations (businesses, trade unions, their associated lobbying efforts, etc.) working in concert or conflict with each other; usually with the goal of influencing or subsuming the direction of the state and generally only to benefit their own socioeconomic agendas at the expense of the will of the people, and to the detriment of the common good.

^
This sounds exactly like the world you seek.
"Funny enough, government is the biggest polluter": 8/31/2016 22:29:21


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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don't worry, the "private police" will stop that haha.
"Funny enough, government is the biggest polluter": 8/31/2016 22:30:22


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_corporatism

Political / Economic system in which power is exercised through large organizations (businesses, trade unions, their associated lobbying efforts, etc.) working in concert or conflict with each other; usually with the goal of influencing or subsuming the direction of the state and generally only to benefit their own socioeconomic agendas at the expense of the will of the people, and to the detriment of the common good.

Corporations are formed by the state either giving benefit to companies that do wrong if they are in corporations (America) or the government forming them themselves (Italy). Either way, the government intervenes constantly in the economy, making it so that you cannot call it capitalist (call me a purist, but pure capitalism is without the extensive government intervention seen in the US).
"Funny enough, government is the biggest polluter": 8/31/2016 22:40:07


Paugers
Level 41
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>Corporations are formed by the state.

"A corporation is a company or group of people authorized to act as a single entity and recognized as such in law. Early incorporated entities were established by charter. Most jurisdictions now allow the creation of new corporations through registration."

Oy vey
"Funny enough, government is the biggest polluter": 8/31/2016 22:44:55


Belgian Gentleman
Level 55
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Down with a corporatist gay dystopia presented as utopia! Money is mostly inherited, not earned Very idiotic Anarcho-capitalism will absolutely benefit no purpose for the (please be Ukranian) voluntary people who stand up for any humanitarian need without accepting cash. ANCAP results in crappy (please be it Brazil) bureaucracy by providing local gouverments a limitless stain of unnecessary kryptonite power of setting new fresh-milked laws that can vary from town to town to horse shit. No glory for the monopoly bankers. BP oil spill= murderer smedley= agressive and stupid

No thanks for you "NOT"-SANE ideology. Delete it in all its kinds

Edited 8/31/2016 22:47:07
"Funny enough, government is the biggest polluter": 8/31/2016 22:47:45


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 49
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>Corporations are formed by the state.

Yes, either indirectly like with giving special treatment to them or directly like Mussolini and the cartels.
"Funny enough, government is the biggest polluter": 8/31/2016 22:53:50


Belgian Gentleman
Level 55
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How rude! Cartels and stinky rat mafia sponsor empty-brain anarchists like you. WHY ARE YOU ALWAYS SO AGRESSIVE?
"Funny enough, government is the biggest polluter": 8/31/2016 23:05:23


BUFFALO
Level 43
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thats what the government wants you to think
"Funny enough, government is the biggest polluter": 8/31/2016 23:07:26


Belgian Gentleman
Level 55
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Says the most trusthworty man in the universe
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