^Juq is a troll. Please do not take his OT posts seriously.

>everyone who I disagree with is a troll

Interesting and productive discussion so far. See how we've moved beyond the initial flame warring just by being a bit more reasonable with each other? Let's not derail this kind of discussion with more accusations and shit like that. Just downvote noisy comments and move on, IMO.

I don't think even you would argue against government taking children away from a parent that tries to kill them.

Taking away the ability

you have the ability to care for your child so long as you don't abuse them.

If you don't have a job you don't have the ability to care for your child; you are not able to, that's what ability is.

If Smedley thinks I'm insane, I'll take that as a compliment.

@wct: don't have 17 minutes to spare; summary?

Edited 11/27/2016 03:12:44

It's sad how people can't talk to each other anymore.

We're talking about Adam from third grade who punched me in the face just for looking a little bit different from him. We're talking about Collin in high school, apparently one of the best shooters in Texas, who called me racial slurs and told me to meet him after school so he could "show me his gun." We're talking about "poor white trash"- not all rural folk, not all working folk, just the people whose enthusiasm for Trump suddenly jumps in studies when someone reminds them America will be minority-white by 2042- and people like Eklipse who stand up for and enable them.

Yeah, thank god you have parents who can shill out a million dollars for you to go to CMU, sounds like you love capitalism. You don't have to deal with these people because of Capitalism, and thank god you aren't paying for them.

But what do I know, I'm just a 14 year old "conservative" with parents who also work their asses off (Nurse and Business Adviser in-case you want to call me a hillbilly hick redneck red-stater)

Edited 11/27/2016 03:16:56

@wct: don't have 17 minutes to spare; summary?

You really should watch it. I would not be able to summarize it better than the video already does. You can find 17 minutes. Posting and reading on this thread has consumed far more than 17 mins of your time already. :-)

PS: When watching talky videos on YouTube, I often use the video speed controls at either 1.5x or 2x, depending on how complex the material is. You should be able to get away with 1.5x on this, but 2x might be too fast. If you go 1.5x, it's only about 10 mins.

Edited 11/27/2016 03:45:57

@Ben: You're taking this too personally if you think I'm calling you a racist hillbilly. I'm straight up talking about Adam, Collin, and their ilk (Adam and Collin are real people, these are real interactions- I'm using their real first names). I certainly don't see you as a racist and obviously don't see my friends who support(ed) Trump as racists. I'm talking about a specific (but large) subset of Trump voters- the "hidden white voters" in the Midwest who swung this election.

Yeah, thank god you have parents who can shill out a million dollars for you to go to CMU, sounds like you love capitalism.

:^) You're right, I'm not fully financially independent yet. I'm very lucky to be able to get a small loan of a quarter million dollars to fund my undergrad until I achieve full financial independence in 2018 (literally the moment I don't have to worry about tuition).

Certainly felt nice to be able to choose this over a full ride to a pretty damn good state school- most people don't even get to accept all the options I've been able to reject so far in life. (Not to say that I'm particularly exceptional either- many people get better outcomes out of high school, too.)

Not everyone gets to make that choice, and I certainly won't claim to have achieved that through moral fortitude or some other BS like that- hard work is usually a necessary but not sufficient condition for a good economic outlook. I freely admit that I've been very lucky in life- that equality of opportunity doesn't exist, and I'm on the benefiting side of that reality.

Not gonna deny that I've got a lot of opportunities handed to me on a plate- like I said, I'm fairly well-insulated from crisis. That's exactly why I said I'm not worried in any way about these small attempted upheavals like Trump- there's no political tool available to supplant the 'globalist, educated elites.' The people and cultures that Midwestern white voters rebelled against (and now strangely demand empathy from) aren't driven by politics but by socioeconomic and technological inevitability. These people- we?- can't be defeated by politics for that simple reason.

And never did I say that I stand to lose from capitalism. I certainly don't need government subsidies to sustain my economic mode of existence, do I? It's not hard for me to sell what skills I have in the market- and once you have a means of accumulating capital, the rest ain't tough.

@wct: Alright I'll get back to you once I watch it.

Edited 11/27/2016 05:24:24

Again, I'm not a representative (or member) of another civilization, unless you agree with me on the issue of Texas basically being an independent country already.

Edited 11/27/2016 05:30:18

Tabby, are you really onboard with racialism? Sigh.

Civilization =/= genetics. Civilization == culture. Have you read The Selfish Gene yet?

I said racialism, not racism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racialism, or, better, http://www.thefreedictionary.com/racialism. Sorry for the confusion. I just mean, do you believe races are a valid concept for humans?

Edited 11/27/2016 06:54:34

^Races are legitimate concepts only to some extant (appearance).

Are you sure about that? I don't think there's ever been such a thing as a definitive definition (of appearance) for any human races that is not exceptionally blurry at the edges to the point where the 'edges' don't even exist.

Biologically speaking we need to change what race means to make it a completely genetic concept.

Biologically speaking, this has been attempted and has failed miserably, much for the same reasons as above. People have tried to define human races biologically. They can't. It doesn't work. It's a smooth landscape, not a bunch of islands.

Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread too much on this tangent, so I won't delve into this further here. But I do urge you to read The Selfish Gene. And, come to think of it, you would also get a lot out of Jared Diamond's book, Guns, Germs, and Steel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns,_Germs,_and_Steel).

"it would be very, very crazy to say that ~48-49% of Americans are racist, sexist, homophobic, misogynistic, etc."

I'm not sure that'd be crazy at all.

I'd actually say 70-80% fit that to be honest.

I don't consider someone racist because they want to hang africans, I consider them racist if they feel people of specific races are superior to others. I consider the man that will pay a white man more than a black man racist, even if he isn't conscious of the reason himself.

Similarly, any man that feels insecure about his girlfriend being taller than him, or making more money than him is sexist in my eyes. You don't have to hate women and think they should be abused to be sexist If you think it's mens responsibility to be the bread-earners, and womens to raise the kids, and that as such your other half exceeding your income makes you less of a man - then you're sexist.

Then again, I make no secret of being elitist. I don't merely consider a large percentage of the population to be racist or sexist. I consider them to be stupid, unmotivated, and incompetent.

You might have had a lot of things handed to you on a platter. I didn't, I grew up raised by a single mother who struggled to survive. We lived in government subsidized housing when I was younger. She put herself through college when I began school, and she is now 87th percentile among Americans in regards to income. I got two masters degrees from the best university in Michigan, and my early income is in the 97th percentile. I'm not empathetic to most people that claim they had no opportunities. They had opportunities. Probably more than I had. They squandered them. I didn't. Shame on them.

Edited 11/27/2016 16:22:50

I'd refer to the American industrial worker as the Americanitas; the citizen/worker/soldier, the modern equivalent of the Roman Romanitas. Both of these groups form the backbone of their respective republics. How did Rome lose the Romanitas and subsequently beginto decay? Importing cheap labor. Well to be more precise, slaves. Many slaves from the areas Rome conquered. This put the Romanitas out of work and led to the destruction of this class and subsequently, the Republic. The modern equivalent would be somewhat outsourcing, and somewhat immigration. If you do not maintain the Americanitas by getting rid of regulations, the minimum wage, lowering taxes and equalizing tariffs to make it reasonably profitable to work in the US, you will succumb like the Roman Republic did.

I don't consider someone racist because they want to hang africans, I consider them racist if they feel people of specific races are superior to others. I consider the man that will pay a white man more thana lack man racist, even if he isn't conscious of the reason himself.

Similarly, any man that feels insecure about his girlfriend being taller than him, or making more money than him is sexist in my eyes. You don't have to hate women and think they should be abused to be sexist If you think it's mens responsibility to be the bread-earners, and womens to raise the kids, and that as such your other half exceeding our income makes you less of a man - then you're sexist.

Well sexism and racism then isn't really that bad of a thing

no BAD DOG go back to DOGHOUSE

No, knyte. It goes more like this:

*Raises legitimate concern about the economy or illegal immigration*
"Fuck off, racist"

THAT is the attitude that got Trump elected.

"Racist" has become a buzzword used to discredit anyone a said person disagrees with. Yes, there are still real racists out there, but now a boy who cried wolf situation has been made.

Everybody who voted Trump is personally responsible for the bullying that knyte went through in his youth. And because both bullies and White blue collars are stupid people, all members of the White working class are bullies.