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Why do humanity need diversity of ideas?: 12/11/2016 08:23:15


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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So that wrong ideas can be corrected.

A large part of humanity is falling into a crisis of low fertility rates that do not seem to have any solution.

As long as humans are reasonably comfortable and individualistic they do not replenish their numbers. Hence societies decay. Artificial production of children by the state is necessary to forestall a disaster without restricting individual freedom or intentionally depriving humans.

Edited 12/11/2016 08:23:55
Why do humanity need diversity of ideas?: 12/11/2016 08:40:28


[FEL] The Prince of Felidia
Level 55
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We have enough people already!
Why do humanity need diversity of ideas?: 12/11/2016 13:54:02


DomCobb
Level 46
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Why do humanity need diversity of ideas?

does*
Why do humanity need diversity of ideas?: 12/11/2016 14:47:16


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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Oops.
Why do humanity need diversity of ideas?: 12/11/2016 15:51:14


[FEL] The Prince of Felidia
Level 55
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Taggy's Mum: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! MY ABORTION FAILED!"
Taggy: Oops...
Why do humanity need diversity of ideas?: 12/11/2016 16:19:37


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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In each historical period there are those who are the most successful. They tend to later no longer fit the changing environment due to ossification of their societies.

The West has been leading for many years due to capitalism, competition, technology and human rights. Right now the modern West is falling to a large extant due to its inability to manage breeding. That includes two parts, fidelity and a sustainable total fertility rate. Note that the patriarchy is not necessary to maintain both. You can have a very rigid patriarchy but still have a ridiculously low total fertility rate. Good examples are Iran, East Europe and East Asia. In fact attempts to maintain subjugation of women in families while allowing women to obtain prosperity and jobs lead to even lower TFRs than what you will otherwise expect since women can simply refuse to marry and participate in the patriarchy. The European migrant crisis is really a natural consequence of Europeans not breeding.

Reproduction is very hard to regulate since those who do not want to breed do not. Greece suffered from a breeding crisis similar to what's happening now when it began to fall. Rome suffered from the same in Augustus's time.

I bet that the future of the world will be led by Indians or Arabs and if they fail, Africans.
Why do humanity need diversity of ideas?: 12/11/2016 16:21:55


Imperator
Level 53
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This is only really a problem in first world countries such as germany, japan, and, as much as I hate to say it, the united states of america. All of these countries have less than 2 children for every woman, thus their natural populations are shrinking.

The only real solution to this (the government making its own children is not a solution, and has some pretty horrible implications about future generations of people who owe allegiance only to the state) is immigration. Other countries have people who badly want to move to the west for one reason or another, and the west badly needs them to plug the holes in the native population.
Why do humanity need diversity of ideas?: 12/11/2016 16:25:25


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
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^Immigration does not solve the problem in the long run. Either immigrants assimilate and adapt the culture of the host, including low fertility or immigrants do not assimilate, maintain high fertility and take over.

What is happening now is:

West Europe + Anglosphere etc: No breeding, immigration.
East Asia + East Europe + Iran: No breeding, no immigration.

Both lead to destruction.

In the former case you either have some evolutionarily sustainable culture (Islam for example) that takes over or you merely delay your destruction. In the latter case you have a population vacuum which will lead to you not being able to handle "barbarian invasions" in the long run.

Hence the state (not the government or the current ruling party) should make children. By the way why do you want individuals to owe allegiance to something secular other than the state?

Edited 12/11/2016 16:32:35
Why do humanity need diversity of ideas?: 12/11/2016 16:29:16


BUFFALO
Level 44
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A large part of humanity is falling into a crisis of low fertility rates


Crisis? This sounds like good news to me! Less humans destroying the Earth and making it hell on Earth!
Why do humanity need diversity of ideas?: 12/11/2016 16:36:09


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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the government making its own children is not a solution, and has some pretty horrible implications about future generations of people who owe allegiance only to the state


tsh I guess this can be done but I think only folk that would uphold such things are members of the FELIDAE clan like me.
Why do humanity need diversity of ideas?: 12/11/2016 16:38:13


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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To maintain a sustainable society evolutionarily you need to tackle several issues:
1.The issue of a sustainable fertility rate.
2.The issue of fidelity if sexual reproduction is not abolished.
3.The issue of mass participation if sexuality is not abolished.

As for issue 2, you do not want the phenomenon of cucks to be prevalent since it reduces investment to children and contributes to instability. As for issue 3, you do not want sexually frustrated people to exist, let alone hold power in a society.

From a pragmatic and secular point of view adultery needs to be penalized to address issue 2 and affordable prostitution should be available to address issue 3.

Edited 12/11/2016 16:56:33
Why do humanity need diversity of ideas?: 12/11/2016 16:38:55


Imperator
Level 53
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^Immigration does not solve the problem in the long run. Either immigrants assimilate and adapt the culture of the host, including low fertility or immigrants do not assimilate, maintain high fertility and take over.

What is happening now is:

West Europe + Anglosphere etc: No breeding, immigration.
East Asia + East Europe + Iran: No breeding, no immigration.

Both lead to destruction.


This approach actually has worked for america in the long term though. The largest groups of americans right now aren't english americans or just "americans", they're irish and germans. You allow a whole bunch of people into your country, they reproduce like hell, and when they stop doing so, you let even more in. It doesn't "destroy" your culture.

Edited 12/11/2016 16:41:34
Why do humanity need diversity of ideas?: 12/11/2016 16:42:35


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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^Yep. However America did not have an issue of low fertility rate before. So immigration was not an issue of plugging one's own hole. I remember that European New Englanders outlasted Native Americans for one reason, population and White South Africans did not grab a part of Africa forever for the same reason, population. You need enough people to do anything, period.

Nobody should defend one's culture. What matters is whether it works. Cultural ossification (whatever my ancestors did is right no matter what!!!!!!!) is very dangerous since it harms the society in the long run. A society should be willing to modify its culture, language, writing system, costumes, etc to improve itself.

For example I don't want to adapt the traditional Islamic culture. I know it works in terms of evolution but it has too few human rights for me to like it. It's also very ossified which hampers development.

A variant of traditional Jewish culture is better since it's less ossified than the traditional Islamic culture with no enforced religious laws, extremely rigid patriarchy, etc. An egalitarian (no patriarchy), multiethnic variant of the traditional Jewish culture may work for humanity.

Edited 12/11/2016 16:52:09
Why do humanity need diversity of ideas?: 12/11/2016 17:09:49


Imperator
Level 53
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^Yep. However America did not have an issue of low fertility rate before.


The effects of a low fertility rate were felt though, in that vast swathes of outside groups overcame the native population to become the largest demographic groups.

For example I don't want to adapt the traditional Islamic culture. I know it works in terms of evolution but it has too few human rights for me to like it. It's also very ossified which hampers development.


By "traditional Islamic culture" I would assume you are talking about arab culture? Lots of Islamic cultures such as those in the southern balkans have plenty of human rights.
Why do humanity need diversity of ideas?: 12/11/2016 17:19:29


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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^The problem with low fertility rate is both relative and absolute. Any society with TFR below replacement has low TFR in the absolute sense.

Yep, the Arab Islamic one. Outliers are usually less ossified for many reasons. One key reason is that Islam relies on Arabic Qur'an, not translations. Hence non-Arab Muslims living far away from Arabia traditionally did not necessarily have the full package of an Orthodox Islamic society due to their lack of Classical Arabic knowledge. On the other hand, Christianity can be ossified outside Israel and other places populated by Jews because it relies on translations while Islam does not.

Edited 12/11/2016 17:21:20
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