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an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 20:30:38


Wally Balls 
Level 58
Report
previous discussions:
https://www.warlight.net/Forum/224405-introduction-logic
https://www.warlight.net/Forum/224423-introduction-logic

a lot of people in this forum like to attempt to have debates about various topics, but don't have even a basic understanding of how logic works. it is my aim that this post will help them begin to form coherent arguments.

these are the four most common logical fallacies i see committed here:

strawman argument -- attacking an argument that was not made, rather than addressing the argument that was made.

ad hominem attack -- making a personal attack and pretending that is an argument, rather than addressing the argument that was made.

red herring -- bringing up something unrelated and irrelevant, rather than addressing the argument that was made.

genetic fallacy -- attacking the history of the person making the argument, rather than addressing the argument that was made.

notice anything these all have in common? in each case, the argument that was made was not addressed. if you wish to actually debate constructively and with some semblance of intelligence and coherence, you need to address the argument that was made. If you're not addressing the argument made, you're not even in the game. you're just babbling irrelevant bullshit and making a fool of yourself.

i was going to provide some examples but then I realized this forum is full of stubborn trolls who don't have even a basic grasp of logic, who will not heed or likely even be able to understand my advice, so they'll provide the examples for us. i'll identify fallacies in the thread as they are committed.
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 20:31:22


Wally Balls 
Level 58
Report
a couple hours is an unreasonable amount of time to hide a good faith, well intentioned, high effort post.

those who do not like my volume of threads should consider not downvoting them. when i have an active thread, i tend to stick to it. if you don't like it, don't open it. the alternative is that i have to create new ones when the old ones are hidden. nobody seems to like that.

Edited 12/19/2016 20:36:04
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 20:42:35


Stewie
Level 51
Report
hmph you know who else created the same posts after the originals get downvoted?

https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=9769323106

this lad.

>inb4 "red herring" and "ad hominem"
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 20:44:09


Onoma94 
Level 60
Report
kill yourself
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 20:45:56


Major General Smedley Butler
Level 51
Report
Wally Balls is a high elf puppet
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 21:04:53


Wally Balls 
Level 58
Report
>inb4 "red herring" and "ad hominem"


that was actually a genetic fallacy if in response to the OP.

if in response to my reply, it wasn't fallacious.
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 21:07:01


Wally Balls 
Level 58
Report
hi smegma, thanks for demonstrating an ad hominem attack. the first so far. you have attempted to dismiss my argument by attacking me personally. that is an invalid argument and you have yet to address what i said in any way.
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 21:19:53


master of desaster 
Level 64
Report
You are a good troll, better than most ordinary forum trolls, i'll give you that.
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 21:25:29


[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
Report
hi smegma, thanks for demonstrating ...


What is it called again when you insult someone rather than attempting to get at their point?

To the point, what is your point in spamming the forum and circumventing the forum voting system? Is your point to get suspended?

Edited 12/19/2016 21:25:49
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 21:26:58


Wally Balls 
Level 58
Report
i wasn't aware that was against the rules.

only given a warning, that's pretty chill. thanks to whoever made that decision.
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 21:29:51


berdan131
Level 56
Report
It's too late. You'll be put to jail
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 21:31:08


[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
Report
Yes, it was against the rule for you to only get a warning for spamming the site.

Warlight opposes the practice commonly referred to as "Spam." If You are reported and a claim of "Spam" is validated by Warlight against You, You will have Your Account either immediately TERMINATED or SUSPENDED, at the sole discretion of Warlight. Additionally, any winnings, if any, may be voided at the sole discretion of Warlight. Warlight defines "Spam" as (i) electronic mail messages addressed to a recipient with whom the initiator does not have an existing business or personal relationship or is not sent at the request of, or with the express consent of, the recipient, (ii) messages posted to forum and message boards that are off-topic (unrelated to the topic of discussion), cross-posted to unrelated newsgroups, or posted in excessive volume; or (iii) solicitations posted to chat rooms, or to groups or individuals via Internet relay chat, via the Warlight internal communication systems or "instant messaging" system.
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 21:31:24


Wally Balls 
Level 58
Report
What is it called again when you insult someone rather than attempting to get at their point?


Hi Poop, I see you lack even a basic understanding of logic. You've come to the right thread! That's not how an ad hominem attack works. Smegma never made an argument, he just made an ad hominem attack. I pointed this out, thus directly addressing what he had said. Hope that helps, you could certainly use some work forming coherent arguments.
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 21:35:53


[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
Report
Seriously? Major General Smedley Butler claimed you were a high elf puppet. Rather than address his argument that you are a puppet, you attacked him by changing his name to "Smegma"

And you are making offensive comments towards me by indicating that my name is "Poop" rather than Pooh.

Consider this a warning of offensive conduct towards other players. Learn to make an argument.

You shall be respectful to other players at all times.
Racial slurs, personal attacks, excessive profanity, or any other offensive language will not be tolerated.


Edited 12/19/2016 21:39:49
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 21:41:57

DanWL 
Level 61
Report
You don't need 3 threads about the same thing in one day.

If you post another thread about "an introduction to logic", I'll be tempted to report it as spam.
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 21:43:56


[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
Report
@DanWL, that is probably what he was referring to when he mentioned getting a warning for spam. I liked how brazen he is about creating additional threads because he's upset no one likes his posts and they all get downvoted.
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 21:48:40


Wally Balls 
Level 58
Report
Hi Poop, I've been calling you that for four years, whenever you follow me around harassing and insulting me. I'm not sure why you now claim that's 'offensive' -- perhaps you're trying to get me suspended? Good luck with that. Your credibility might be helped if you weren't so openly following me around harassing and insulting me. Everybody can see how biased and obsessed with me you are.

Anyway:

To directly address what you just said (take note of that), making a personal attack does not automatically make something an ad hominem attack. It's only an ad hominem attack if the personal attack is used instead of addressing what was said. If the argument is addressed and a personal attack is also made, that's not an ad hominem attack.

In the case of what Smegma said, I directly addressed what he said (just as I've directly addressed what you said) by telling him it was an ad hominem attack. So anything I said that you consider a personal attack, does not make it an ad hominem attack.

Hope that helps you understand some basic logic. I can see it's difficult for you.
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 21:54:08


[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
Report
Did you seriously just say you don't understand why calling someone "Poop" for 4 years straight isn't offensive?

Did you say that with a straight face?
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 21:55:11


Wally Balls 
Level 58
Report
If you post another thread about "an introduction to logic", I'll be tempted to report it as spam.


i was given a warning for that, so obviously wont create anymore.

it doesn't seem like spam to me because the threads are hidden so i only have one thread visible.

clearly an argument can be made otherwise.
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 21:56:12


Wally Balls 
Level 58
Report
Did you seriously just say


i'm saying that if you actually found it offensive, you would have said something about that in the previous four years.

now you're pretending to be offended to try and get me suspended.

good luck with that.
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 21:59:30


[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
Report
clearly an argument can be made otherwise


And that would be an awful argument.

The rules define spam as follows. I'll bold the parts that are relevant for those that are challenged and finding relevant points:

Warlight defines "Spam" as (i) electronic mail messages addressed to a recipient with whom the initiator does not have an existing business or personal relationship or is not sent at the request of, or with the express consent of, the recipient, (ii) messages posted to forum and message boards that are off-topic (unrelated to the topic of discussion), cross-posted to unrelated newsgroups, or posted in excessive volume;


When you post something once, get downvoted, then post something again, get downvoted you now have two indications that what you are posting is not relevant to the forums. Creating a third identical post proves that you are incapable of discerning for yourself that you are posting excessively, and thus you needed to get a warning.
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 22:02:40


Wally Balls 
Level 58
Report
You shall be respectful to other players at all times.

Do you think you follow the spirit of that with me?

Clearly you do not. You are a huge raging jerk to me at all times.

Maybe you should fucking stop that. I never seek you out dude. Never. It's always you come after me.

Put your boner in your pants and leave me alone and we wont have any problems.
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 22:08:03


berdan131
Level 56
Report
"leave me alone" xD
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 22:13:30


[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
Report
@Wally Balls,

Can you tell me what logical argument you are using to prove your point that I should leave you alone?

Is it that I am logically schooling you in your "introduction to logic" forum thread, which by the way, is a public posting which begs people from the public to post on this?
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 22:38:43


[REGL] Pooh 
Level 60
Report
I guess you should add "I'm Taking my Ball and Going Home" to the list of weak arguments that don't beat Pooh.
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 22:39:59


Wally Balls 
Level 58
Report
That is a red herring, you did not address my argument and started babbling incoherent nonsense instead.

This logic thing really isn't for you, I'd stick to weak trolling and obsessing over other men on the internet.

Edited 12/19/2016 22:40:19
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 22:55:41


Von Jewburg
Level 35
Report
Oh Wally.

What about your arguments by association?

Lots of people on Warlight like Trump. Trump's supporters are on average less educated than Clinton supporters. Therefore the Warlighters who like Trump are not as smart as me.
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 23:05:16


AWESOMEGUY 
Level 62
Report
Speak to Me
"I've been mad for fucking years, absolutely years, been
over the edge for yonks, been working me buns off for bands..."
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the
most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even
if you're not mad..."

Breathe (In the Air)
Breathe, breathe in the air
Don't be afraid to care
Leave but don't leave me
Look around and choose your own ground

Long you live and high you fly
And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry
And all you touch and all you see
Is all your life will ever be

Run, rabbit run
Dig that hole, forget the sun
And when at last the work is done
Don't sit down it's time to dig another one

For long you live and high you fly
But only if you ride the tide
And balanced on the biggest wave
You race towards an early grave

On The Run
"Live for today, gone tomorrow, that's me, HaHaHaaaaaa!"

Time
Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
You fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way

Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain
You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun

So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older,
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death

Every year is getting shorter never seem to find the time
Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
The time is gone, the song is over,
Thought I'd something more to say...

Breathe (Reprise)
Home, home again
I like to be here when I can
When I come home cold and tired
It's good to warm my bones beside the fire
Far away across the field
The tolling of the iron bell
Calls the faithful to their knees
To hear the softly spoken magic spells

The Great Gig in the Sky
"And I am not frightened of dying, any time will do, I
don't mind. Why should I be frightened of dying?
There's no reason for it, you've gotta go sometime."
"I never said I was frightened of dying."

Money
Money, get away
Get a good job with good pay and you're okay
Money, it's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash
New car, caviar, four star daydream,
Think I'll buy me a football team

Money, get back
I'm all right Jack keep your hands off of my stack
Money, it's a hit
Don't give me that do goody good bullshit
I'm in the high-fidelity first class traveling set
And I think I need a Lear jet

Money, it's a crime
Share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie
Money, so they say
Is the root of all evil today
But if you ask for a raise it's no surprise
That they're giving none away.

"HuHuh! I was in the right!"
"Yes, absolutely in the right!"
"I certainly was in the right!"
"You was definitely in the right.
That geezer was cruising for a bruising!"
"Yeah!"
"Why does anyone do anything?"
"I don't know, I was really drunk at the time!"
"I was just telling him, he couldn't get into number 2.
He was asking why he wasn't coming up on freely,
After I was yelling and screaming and
Telling him why he wasn't coming up on freely.
It came as a heavy blow, but we sorted the matter out"

Us and Them
Us, and them
And after all we're only ordinary men.
Me, and you.
God only knows it's not what we would choose to do.
Forward he cried from the rear
and the front rank died.
And the general sat and the lines on the map
moved from side to side.

Black and blue
And who knows which is which and who is who
Up and down
But in the end it's only round and round
Haven't you heard it's a battle of words
The poster bearer cried
Listen son, said the man with the gun
There's room for you inside

"I mean, they're not gunna kill ya, so if you give 'em a quick short,
sharp, shock, they won't do it again. Dig it?
I mean he get off lightly, 'cos I would've given him a
Thrashing - I only hit him once!
It was only a difference of opinion,
But really...I mean good manners
don't cost nothing do they, eh?"

Down and out
It can't be helped but there's a lot of it about
With, without
And who'll deny it's what the fighting's all about?
Out of the way, it's a busy day
I've got things on my mind
For the want of the price of tea and a slice
The old man died

Any Colour You Like
[Instrumental]

Brain Damage
The lunatic is on the grass
The lunatic is on the grass
Remembering games and daisy chains and laughs
Got to keep the loonies on the path

The lunatic is in the hall
The lunatics are in my hall
The paper holds their folded faces to the floor
And every day the paper boy brings more

And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
And if there is no room upon the hill
And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon

The lunatic is in my head
The lunatic is in my head
You raise the blade, you make the change
You re-arrange me 'til I'm sane
You lock the door
And throw away the key
There's someone in my head but it's not me

And if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear
You shout and no one seems to hear
And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon

"I can't think of anything to say except...
I think it's marvelous! HaHaHa!"

Eclipse
All that you touch
All that you see
All that you taste
All you feel
All that you love
All that you hate
All you distrust
All you save
All that you give
All that you deal
All that you buy,
beg, borrow or steal
All you create
All you destroy
All that you do
All that you say
All that you eat
And everyone you meet
All that you slight
And everyone you fight
All that is now
All that is gone
All that's to come
and everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.


"There is no dark side of the moon really.
Matter of fact it's all dark."
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 23:07:36


Wally Balls 
Level 58
Report
Speak to Me
"I've been mad for fucking years, absolutely years, been
over the edge for yonks, been working me buns off for bands..."
"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the
most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even
if you're not mad..."

Breathe (In the Air)
Breathe, breathe in the air
Don't be afraid to care
Leave but don't leave me
Look around and choose your own ground

Long you live and high you fly
And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry
And all you touch and all you see
Is all your life will ever be

Run, rabbit run
Dig that hole, forget the sun
And when at last the work is done
Don't sit down it's time to dig another one

For long you live and high you fly
But only if you ride the tide
And balanced on the biggest wave
You race towards an early grave

On The Run
"Live for today, gone tomorrow, that's me, HaHaHaaaaaa!"

Time
Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
You fritter and waste the hours in an offhand way
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way

Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain
You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun

So you run and you run to catch up with the sun but it's sinking
Racing around to come up behind you again
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older,
Shorter of breath and one day closer to death

Every year is getting shorter never seem to find the time
Plans that either come to naught or half a page of scribbled lines
Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way
The time is gone, the song is over,
Thought I'd something more to say...

Breathe (Reprise)
Home, home again
I like to be here when I can
When I come home cold and tired
It's good to warm my bones beside the fire
Far away across the field
The tolling of the iron bell
Calls the faithful to their knees
To hear the softly spoken magic spells

The Great Gig in the Sky
"And I am not frightened of dying, any time will do, I
don't mind. Why should I be frightened of dying?
There's no reason for it, you've gotta go sometime."
"I never said I was frightened of dying."

Money
Money, get away
Get a good job with good pay and you're okay
Money, it's a gas
Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash
New car, caviar, four star daydream,
Think I'll buy me a football team

Money, get back
I'm all right Jack keep your hands off of my stack
Money, it's a hit
Don't give me that do goody good bullshit
I'm in the high-fidelity first class traveling set
And I think I need a Lear jet

Money, it's a crime
Share it fairly but don't take a slice of my pie
Money, so they say
Is the root of all evil today
But if you ask for a raise it's no surprise
That they're giving none away.

"HuHuh! I was in the right!"
"Yes, absolutely in the right!"
"I certainly was in the right!"
"You was definitely in the right.
That geezer was cruising for a bruising!"
"Yeah!"
"Why does anyone do anything?"
"I don't know, I was really drunk at the time!"
"I was just telling him, he couldn't get into number 2.
He was asking why he wasn't coming up on freely,
After I was yelling and screaming and
Telling him why he wasn't coming up on freely.
It came as a heavy blow, but we sorted the matter out"

Us and Them
Us, and them
And after all we're only ordinary men.
Me, and you.
God only knows it's not what we would choose to do.
Forward he cried from the rear
and the front rank died.
And the general sat and the lines on the map
moved from side to side.

Black and blue
And who knows which is which and who is who
Up and down
But in the end it's only round and round
Haven't you heard it's a battle of words
The poster bearer cried
Listen son, said the man with the gun
There's room for you inside

"I mean, they're not gunna kill ya, so if you give 'em a quick short,
sharp, shock, they won't do it again. Dig it?
I mean he get off lightly, 'cos I would've given him a
Thrashing - I only hit him once!
It was only a difference of opinion,
But really...I mean good manners
don't cost nothing do they, eh?"

Down and out
It can't be helped but there's a lot of it about
With, without
And who'll deny it's what the fighting's all about?
Out of the way, it's a busy day
I've got things on my mind
For the want of the price of tea and a slice
The old man died

Any Colour You Like
[Instrumental]

Brain Damage
The lunatic is on the grass
The lunatic is on the grass
Remembering games and daisy chains and laughs
Got to keep the loonies on the path

The lunatic is in the hall
The lunatics are in my hall
The paper holds their folded faces to the floor
And every day the paper boy brings more

And if the dam breaks open many years too soon
And if there is no room upon the hill
And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon

The lunatic is in my head
The lunatic is in my head
You raise the blade, you make the change
You re-arrange me 'til I'm sane
You lock the door
And throw away the key
There's someone in my head but it's not me

And if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear
You shout and no one seems to hear
And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon

"I can't think of anything to say except...
I think it's marvelous! HaHaHa!"

Eclipse
All that you touch
All that you see
All that you taste
All you feel
All that you love
All that you hate
All you distrust
All you save
All that you give
All that you deal
All that you buy,
beg, borrow or steal
All you create
All you destroy
All that you do
All that you say
All that you eat
And everyone you meet
All that you slight
And everyone you fight
All that is now
All that is gone
All that's to come
and everything under the sun is in tune
but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.


"There is no dark side of the moon really.
Matter of fact it's all dark."


Red herring.
an introduction to logic: 12/19/2016 23:10:15


Wally Balls 
Level 58
Report
it's confusing to me why warlight warns/suspends people for things but then leaves what they did alone.

how do you give me a warning for spam and not delete this thread? lol

that doesn't send the right signals. people should know when a rule was enforced on a post, so they know not to do that.
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