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Voter's PR League: 12/30/2016 04:58:48


[FCC] Aura Guardian 
Level 60
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Background:

Considering the rise, growth, and popularity of the Promotion/Relegation league, stemming from the original concept created by chokecherry, I have noticed one limitation that the PR leagues present us: There are a very limited amount of templates that are a part of the PR leagues. Thus, I would like to present warlight with the concept of the Voter's PR league.

The idea behind this league is not only to track your progress as the seasons progress, but also, the players who will have the most success are those who can play well on many different templates, not just one.

Template Selection:

For the first season, The template selection process would occur in three stages. In the first stage, the participants will suggest 1v1 templates to be used for the PR league. In order to do this, players must provide a link to the template and an example game on it.

The templates must have been proven to be strategically viable elsewhere before they can be incorporated here. This means that they must have been played, at least once, in some other major internal or community event. This includes:

The rt ladder
The seasonal ladder
The 1v1 ladder
WGL
MDL
IPL
Another major PR league (two of which I know: Small earth PR and classic PR)
AWP World Tour Magazine

If you think of any other major community events that I have omitted, please tell me here.

In the second stage, a small group of players will whittle down the list of templates to (divisions*2). They will determine what they feel will be the most useful, balanced, and appropriate templates are for the PR league. If you are interested on being a part of the committee, please PM me. Note that the committee will require a skype, and will host a limited number of players (no more than 5)

In the third stage, each template will be assigned a number, and I will use a random number generator to determine which template each division will play. This means that every division will be using a different template!

League Format:

The league will ideally have divisions of 7 players, 2 who promote, 2 who relegate each season. Leagues will be divided into divisions, starting with "A" for the top tier, and going down the alphabet for each group. For the first season, players will be placed randomly into non-tiered groups. the first place player will go to group "A" for season 2, the second place to group "B", and so on and so forth. Newcomers after season one will be added into the bottom of the league.

If you have ideas to improve this format, or would like participate, please reply below. If you would like to help me with setup or template selection, please PM me.

Thanks All!

Sincerely
[FCC] Aura Guardian

Edited 12/30/2016 18:53:00
Voter's PR League: 12/30/2016 10:26:45


blat.be-bop 
Level 57
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Neat. I was thinking about something along those lines for a P/R league - in particular varying the templates somehow dynamically.

My thought, though was that instead of voting for two templates, players would actually play two templates within their division. And with the exception of the first season: the players in the division nominate a template for themselves, and the players in the division below nominate a template for the division above (my original thought was actually three games, one chosen within the group, one by the group above, and one by the group below.... but that's a lot of games).

Edit: Oh, and the pool of templates would be chosen like you said from a pool of suggestions by players by a panel. Unless a panel is hard to come by, in which case I would have just used MotD's choices as a jumping off point.

Edited 12/30/2016 10:28:55
Voter's PR League: 12/30/2016 12:43:34


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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Interesting concept. A few observations
  • You will start out with few divisions and this will be manageable. If the league is successful and has 15 divisions, how do you plan to scale this out? Gathering votes from every player seems like a lot of work. Some players may not vote in a timely manner. An easier solution may be to give people the right to nominate templates and randomly allocate templates to each division. It still preserves the spirit of the league.
  • You should probably establish some rules on what templates are acceptable. If there aren't enough submissions in Stage 1(say 15 divisions, 30 required templates), you may be forced to pick 2*N templates, where some of them are poor and a division is forced to play them.
  • Based off of Clan League/Pushover's experience, I foresee this league relying on a lot of manual work setting up tournaments on different templates. This doesn't scale well as participation grows. I know the amount of time Push spends on just doing updates, and it requires a lot of dedication. I would recommend having a chat with him to get an idea of the amount of work involved and getting a few more folks to help out with running the league.
  • I assume you intend to use similar rules as the regular P/R league to resolve promotions/super promotions. It would be nice to spell them out too. Based on the level of interest, you may also want to look at some of the proposals on the P/R league thread to solve the problem of it taking too long to promote(multi-tiered groups etc).
  • I think we'll see a lot of variance in skill level in every division each season. This is because the division structure is solely determined by the luck of the template draw the previous season. A well rounded player will probably be placed in their correct division. But you could end up with imbalanced divisions as well, due to someone being really good on the chosen template for a specific season. If the league could randomize the templates used on every match up, that would be awesome. But I understand that it is hard to set up manually. If you ever explore alternative solutions to the scale problem, I think you should consider this as well.


Finally, sign me up!
Voter's PR League: 12/30/2016 13:50:52


Des {TJC}
Level 58
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I don't have constructive criticism like the other two, but to hell with it. Sign me up.
Voter's PR League: 12/30/2016 18:43:46


[FCC] Aura Guardian 
Level 60
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@ MoTD

You will start out with few divisions and this will be manageable. If the league is successful and has 15 divisions, how do you plan to scale this out? Gathering votes from every player seems like a lot of work. Some players may not vote in a timely manner. An easier solution may be to give people the right to nominate templates and randomly allocate templates to each division. It still preserves the spirit of the league.

I like this idea much better. It would mean we would not need divisions*2 templates in order to have a successful league.

You should probably establish some rules on what templates are acceptable. If there aren't enough submissions in Stage 1(say 15 divisions, 30 required templates), you may be forced to pick 2*N templates, where some of them are poor and a division is forced to play them.

Also a good idea. 2*N issue can be resolved with Random allocation.

Based off of Clan League/Pushover's experience, I foresee this league relying on a lot of manual work setting up tournaments on different templates. This doesn't scale well as participation grows. I know the amount of time Push spends on just doing updates, and it requires a lot of dedication. I would recommend having a chat with him to get an idea of the amount of work involved and getting a few more folks to help out with running the league.

A chat with pushover does not sound like a bad idea. I do wish for volunteers to help me out, since there is no way I will be able to maintain the league completely on my own.

I assume you intend to use similar rules as the regular P/R league to resolve promotions/super promotions. It would be nice to spell them out too. Based on the level of interest, you may also want to look at some of the proposals on the P/R league thread to solve the problem of it taking too long to promote(multi-tiered groups etc).

Solid point. I will look that up on pushover's thread.

To start, I don't imagine using a classic format will be too much of a problem, but I can see this becoming an issue as the league grows, just like with pushover's league.

I think we'll see a lot of variance in skill level in every division each season. This is because the division structure is solely determined by the luck of the template draw the previous season. A well rounded player will probably be placed in their correct division. But you could end up with imbalanced divisions as well, due to someone being really good on the chosen template for a specific season. If the league could randomize the templates used on every match up, that would be awesome. But I understand that it is hard to set up manually. If you ever explore alternative solutions to the scale problem, I think you should consider this as well.

This sounds like a textbook programming problem to me. Problem is, I know nothing of how to program a CLOT, or whatever you would need in order to operate this successfully. Perhaps this is something I could look into, if I ever get a membership, or have someone look into for me, although I can imagine it being a fairly significant time commitment.

@Black.Bishop-

An interesting concept, of having players play two tournaments on two templates. Perhaps this can be an alternative way of resolving the variance issue.

Edited 12/30/2016 18:44:16
Voter's PR League: 12/30/2016 18:50:10


[FCC] Aura Guardian 
Level 60
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I added a template rule. Tell me what you think of it.
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