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Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/9/2017 01:51:14


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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Clans have voted and the templates which will be used in CL9 can be found here - https://www.warlight.net/Forum/224489-clan-league-9-template-voting

Next steps:
  • Read this document thoroughly. - https://goo.gl/xT2dzg
  • Submit your clan's roster.
  • Submit your clan's lineup based on the templates which have been selected. [Use the format specified in the 2nd post. Any other format will be rejected.]

Private message your roster/lineups to both these players before the deadline.
https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=2428496679
https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=314032996


The deadline for roster + lineup submission is 1/28/2017 00:00:00 UTC. Any clan which fails to submit a lineup/roster by that date will be removed from the league. DO NOT wait until the last minute to submit lineups. If there are errors, we need time to correct you.

By submitting a roster, you and your clan accept the following:
  • You have read the document above in its entirety.
  • Any issue which arises during CL9 will be decided by the rules stated in that document.
  • Any issue which has not been covered in that document will be addressed by the CL panel to the best of their ability and you will respect their decision. If you think there is some obvious rule that has not been stated, please let us know and we will consider it.
  • Abuse of the panel or trolling will not be tolerated and is valid grounds for removal from this league.



Roster

Every clan can submit a roster of up to 25 players. Every player in the line-up must be a part of the roster. In the event of a substitution, a clan can only pick a player on their roster.

Any player present in a clan's roster must also be a member of that clan on the date of the submission deadline. Alts are not permitted in the roster/line-up.

If a player with accounts in 2 clans is enlisted by both clans, they will be removed from both clans' rosters. The player must then clarify with the CL panel which clan they wish to play for.


Lineup
  • Group A/B

    Every clan must submit a lineup to fill all their slots(six 1v1, 2 * three 2v2, 3 * two 3v3). In total there are 18 slots per clan. A player can be put in a maximum of 3 slots. Any player listed in a clan's line-up must be a member of that clan on the date of the submission deadline.

  • Group Q1/2/3/4

    Every clan must submit a lineup for each of the two Stages. A player can be used in a maximum of 3 slots over the two stages.
    • The Stage 1 line-up contains 8 slots( three 1v1s, 2 * one 2v2, 3 * one 3v3). No player can play in more than 2 slots in this stage. This means that each clan must have a minimum of 4 players in this stage to be able to compete.
    • The Stage 2(C,D1,D2) line-up contains 10 slots ( three 1v1s, 2 * two 2v2s, 3 * one 3v3).

    The line-up for both stages must be submitted before the start of the league when groups are drawn for Q1,Q2,Q3,Q4. However, a clan may make any number of changes to their Stage 2 line-up before Stage 2 actually begins. These changes will not count towards their limit of 6 substitutions over the course of the season.



Edited 1/26/2017 16:59:55
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/9/2017 01:51:22


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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Sample lineup + roster for a hypothetical Apex.

Roster
			
Kenny • apex	https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=635295275			
darkw1ng	https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=1911556148			
Widzisz • apex	https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=202386428			
brisk • apex	https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=597786678			
ultimaratio	https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=426035226			
grona • apex	https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=213759586			
Frank • apex	https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=129117599			
Gol D. Roger	https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=9835535151			
dunga • apex	https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=955485421			
timon92	        https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=4736323931			
Deadman • apex	https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=8543834393			
Luxis • apex	https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=525300947			
Lúthien • apex	https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=9927790984			
Dark Wizard	https://www.warlight.net/Profile?p=1525862797




Lineup
Format	Template                   Player1                   Player2                   Player3
Stage 1 1v1 Guiroma dunga • apex 1v1 Old Strat ME dunga • apex 1v1 Volcano Island Luxis • apex 2v2 Guiroma darkw1ng grona • apex 3v3 Deadman's Rome Kenny • apex Lúthien • apex Dark Wizard
Stage 2 1v1 Elitist Africa Gol D. Roger 1v1 Phobia grona • apex 1v1 Strat Greece dunga • apex 2v2 China Deadman • apex Gol D. Roger 2v2 Final Earth Deadman • apex Lúthien • apex 3v3 Europe Kenny • apex Gol D. Roger Lúthien • apex


Edited 1/9/2017 02:36:22
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/9/2017 01:51:27


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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.

Edited 1/25/2017 17:13:17
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/9/2017 01:51:32


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/9/2017 16:30:27


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
Level 60
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Group Q1/2/3/4

Every clan must submit a lineup for each of the two Stages. A player can be used in a maximum of 3 slots over the two stages.
The Stage 1 line-up contains 8 slots( three 1v1s, 2 * one 2v2, 3 * one 3v3). No player can play in more than 2 slots in this stage. This means that each clan must have a minimum of 4 players in this stage to be able to compete.
The Stage 2(C,D1,D2) line-up contains 10 slots ( three 1v1s, 2 * two 2v2s, 3 * one 3v3).


I summarize:
1 player can play in 3 tournaments over the 2 stages.
No player can play in more than 2 slots in Stage 1 (It is clearly said "in this stage" -> so it isnt meant for stage 2?).
Means in Stage 2 a player can have 3 slots theoretically?

I am asking before, so we can be friends while CL9 is running :)



>>>EDIT: I can answer my own question. In the document you shall read closely it is also said for stage 2<<<

Edited 1/9/2017 16:54:07
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/9/2017 17:01:58


Beren • apex 
Level 62
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You can have one player in 3 slots in Stage 2 if they did not participate in Stage 1. If you look in the sample apex roster, Gol D. Roger is in 3 slots in Stage 2.

Edited 1/9/2017 17:02:22
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/9/2017 18:12:45


Great Expanse 
Level 59
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Every clan can submit a roster of up to 25 players. Every player in the line-up must be a part of the roster. In the event of a substitution, a clan can only pick a player on their roster.

So lets say the Hydra lineup has 9 players across the two stages. I can add 16 additional players from the clan to the Hydra roster?
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/9/2017 19:10:32


Beren • apex 
Level 62
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So lets say the Hydra lineup has 9 players across the two stages. I can add 16 additional players from the clan to the Hydra roster?


As long as they are all in your clan on the submission deadline, yes.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/11/2017 03:37:53


[FCC] Aura Guardian 
Level 60
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In the case a player is in two separate clans, do we have to state what the player's account is in both clans? Also, do we have to specify their "main" account? If they want to play on the account that is in the clan, but is not their "main" account, which is in the other clan, how would this be specified?

I ask these questions in regards to Pardon99, whose main account is in ONE!, however who is playing in FCC under "Jyu Viole Grace", and will be playing under the account "Jyu Viole Grace" this clan league. Under what name, and if both names, in what order, would we put him in on our roster?
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/12/2017 19:56:23


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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EDIT : See response below.

Edited 1/13/2017 03:51:30
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 04:20:34


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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EDIT : See updated post @ https://www.warlight.net/Forum/231273-clan-league-9-roster-lineup?Offset=27

Edited 1/13/2017 16:25:52
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 04:38:12


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Um, I am not sure about your metric to define a main though. For example, almosttricky will be playing for us (his alt is The Guy in SNinja). I cannot be sure he has the most points on his main in the last 30 days though, hopefully he has played that account the most lately. I suppose if that were not the case, he would need to switch accounts to remedy this?

EDIT - it is not even close, he has barely played The Guy lately. But that scenario could happen, so best that people know what they need to do to comply.

Edited 1/13/2017 04:41:02
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 04:47:54


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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Yeah I agree. If we can all agree of what a main is(and it's really obvious which account is the main in almost all circumstances), we can use common sense.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 04:50:46


[FCC] SuperGamerzChannel 
Level 57
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Having had a rethink on the restrictions of players representing clans, we feel that the spirit of Clan League should be to represent your primary clan. Since playing with an alt allows you to sidestep these rules, we have decided to clarify a few points.

1. A player must be a member of their clan for the entire duration of the clan league. If they leave the clan for whatever reason, they must be substituted immediately. When creating a game, if a player is not in the clan they are representing, the CLOT will award a loss for that game.

2. A player must play on their main account and not place an alt in another clan to sidestep these rules. A main account is defined as the account which has earned the most points earned in the last 30 days.

3. We will permit 8 substitutions per clan due to the clarification on 1.

4. We have also decided to extend the deadline by a week to 1/28/2017 to give clans more time to accordingly form their lineups. You are welcome to submit your lineups earlier :)


I'm going to have to disagree with your reasoning here. My alt currently has more points from playing on the ladders, but most of my activity is on my main. By this rule I can't represent the FCC. Other players in the FCC is also brought into question with this.

You're gonna have to make some exceptions, or I'm in trouble.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 05:02:38


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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Yeah, I was thinking maybe someone played a seasonal ladder with a 2nd account for whatever reason and ended up with more points on that one for the last 30 days even though their main account has like %90 of their total points. Not sure that is going to come up though.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 05:27:53


[FCC] Aura Guardian 
Level 60
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I wish to make the request that you postpone this rule until next season. I feel that this rule is really unfair to several clans who may have one or two players playing for them with "mains" in different clans. Also, if your goal is to maintain professionalism in clan league, then adding a rule like this, so suddenly, does not seem to support that. I understand your motivation for the "Spirit of Clan League", however, changing rules like this changes the dynamics of a carefully thought-out roster in the works for months. You may have just sunk some clans who may be unable to recover adequately in time.

I apologize is this critique is overly sharp, but between EIC collapsing/being hijacked, the FCC mass absorption of players because of it, NoonTiger going off his rocker and insulting the FCC and former EIC leaders, and the fact that I should be doing statistics right now, really has me on my edge, and is wearing away at my fuse.

Edited 1/13/2017 05:29:29
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 05:49:25


Great Expanse 
Level 59
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1. A player must be a member of their clan for the entire duration of the clan league. If they leave the clan for whatever reason, they must be substituted immediately. When creating a game, if a player is not in the clan they are representing, the CLOT will award a loss for that game.

If a person leaves a clan mid season for any reason, I don't see how that should impact the lineup. If the point of this rule is to preserve the integrity of the definition of a clan, then allow clans to add new players to their lineup mid season. I might have a new recruit that was clanless added to my clan, and I want to sub him in. Because he wasn't in the clan months ago, he can't play apparently. So this rule along with the roster rule, means that clans are defined as 25 players that existed in a clan at the time the league started and can slowly atrophy over time with no new additions. I don't feel like that aligns with the definition of a true clan. I strongly feel this rule should be removed. It creates headaches for everyone.

2. A player must play on their main account and not place an alt in another clan to sidestep these rules. A main account is defined as the account which has earned the most points earned in the last 30 days.

Defining a main through points is a bit iffy. The only way I can see a way to define a main is to make a rule that the account a person plays with, they must play with it for at least 2-3 seasons. That in addition to the clan switching rule will make it hard for players to hop between clans through the same account and alts. Sure, you can lie about your alts, but alts often come out of the woodwork eventually.


3. We will permit 8 substitutions per clan due to the clarification on 1.

If rule 1 is going to stand up for this season, which I hope it doesn't, make any substitution that is the result of a player switching clans not count against a clan's quota. It is only fair as the clan is being forcing to substitute players.

Edited 1/13/2017 06:06:48
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 07:12:33


LeQuébécois_Benoit
Level 61
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Looking at rule 1, I see it causing lots of problems. How many people changed clans during a Clan League 8 season? Response = A lot. All guys that will be recruited to "higher division clans" will have to be replaced in their division C clan, probably by someone lesser good.

Let's say a guy is in Juggernauts, let's call him Irgeur. He begins CL9 with Juggernauts but hasn't reached his true potential yet. He plays for 2 months in CL9, everything goes well and he keeps improving during that time on ladders and other important tournaments. Someone from Blizt or Outlaws approach Irgeur and ask him to join their clan. Irgeur likes Juggernauts but feels that he could improve even more his gameplay by joining a clan like Blizt or Outlaws.

His decision before CL9 wouldn't have affected the clan as much as now; before, his decision of leaving Juggernauts for a new clan was a personal choice that wouldn't affect his clan regarding the current Clan League but now, his decision can hurt Juggernauts a lot because they will have to replace him, a good player, probably by someone lesser good than him...So Irgeur has to wait until CL9 is totally done before going to Blizt/Outlaws or whatever new clan he chooses to not put Juggernauts in trouble for CL9...

This rule will force Irgeur to stay in Juggernauts for the duration of Clan League 9 to not look like a douche to them but by doing so, he will probably hurt his personal skill development by staying in a clan where he feels he can't learn nothing new anymore...

This situation is avoided obviously by top clans that have "training clans" in the sense that they can let their prospect in the "training clan" for the duration of Clan League 9 and keep helping him to improve. When Clan League 9 is over, hop in man, come abord the top clan my friend!

The point of rule 1 is likely to prevent an alt from joining a clan at the beginning of the season then switching back to their original clan. While I get that should be prevented, I think that rule 1 causes more problems then it solves. It prevents people from playing in CL that leave a clan for any reason, even if they aren't an alt. It is creating collateral damage and is unfair to a lot of players. If the problem is alts, then I think other methods can be applied to combats alts to this rule. That is why this rule should be retracted.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 07:36:07

linberson 
Level 59
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Deadman, are you trying to fizzer us? ;)
Dont make decisions at 4 in the morning!


The point of rule 1 is likely to prevent an alt from joining a clan at the beginning of the season then switching back to their original clan. While I get that should be prevented, I think that rule 1 causes more problems then it solves. It prevents people from playing in CL that leave a clan for any reason, even if they aren't an alt. It is creating collateral damage and is unfair to a lot of players.

+1

Clan splits would be made essentially impossible.

So the intent is to close loopholes regarding alts and moving between clans?

I would impose something along these lines:

  • stop worrying about alts and mains
  • a player can only play for one clan
  • accounts controlled by a player in a clan that is participating in CL but that he is not playing in CL for have to be declared
  • keep the 2 seasons no switching back rule


Alts are essentially a tool to be able to participate in different communities for most players. Although they have other good uses and many bad uses.
A clan sholdnt suffer from players leaving too much. I think letting them finish a season although they switched clans does no harm.

Edited 1/13/2017 07:40:45
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 08:42:51


Onoma94 
Level 60
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2. A player must play on their main account and not place an alt in another clan to sidestep these rules. A main account is defined as the account which has earned the most points earned in the last 30 days.


Wait wait... so this means that my main account is actually in waco inc. and I can't play for CORP? Because Dexterous Strategist has 40k more points in last 30 days! W O W good new rules.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 09:14:08


Edge
Level 60
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I think if u want to change it, than next season is the better option. The time span is just to short to react on the change now. Players might have joined a new clan but still promised to play with an alt for their old clan. Since they thought that this is possible it would be bad to force them now to decide to either disappoint their old clan and don't play for them this season or force them to leave their new clan.

And it also will cause huge problems in a scenario during the season if a clan splits up like it happened with 101st and Outlaws last season. Then u're forced to make a quick decision regarding the CL spot. But for such an important decision u need time, which u don't have on a split.

I also agree with Ben that this rule could benefit clans who have a training clan, because players already are in the community and can easily wait with a change to the top clan, while other players won't be able to make such an easy decision.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 13:50:04

krunx 
Level 59
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I do not like that rule in general, as I do not see any reason to introduce it. Where is the advantage for the competition. I do not see any! I only see disadvantages...

Furthermore it is way to late to introduce such a rule now, as all clans are already plan their line-up and would need much more time to react to this rule.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 14:05:39


ChrisCMU 
Level 60
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I don't like your idea Great Expanse. Why should he allow people to join mid season that are new to a clan? That allows for people to jump ship on their previous clan mid season, and possibly play for two different clans in the same season.

It also results in extra admin work. You guys do realize that altering the roster mid season IS WORK for the people running it, right? There is little benefit to that, so why allow it?
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 15:12:08


Great Expanse 
Level 59
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Then just remove rule 1 and use the original roster rule of 25 players at the beginning of the season which was created to control who does play for a clan. I see little reason why there is now a second rule that limits who can play for a clan.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 15:17:19


Zephyrum 
Level 60
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You guys do realize that altering the roster mid season IS WORK for the people running it, right?


Anyone in their right mind does, and therefore, knows that adding new, extra rules this far in with no warning and expecting players to oblige and not make use of the several obvious loopholes here is a really bad move when it comes to sheer simplicity or softness of 'admin work'. They kind of asked for more admin work.

All of these rules are bound to have terrible problems and drama like last CL.

Yeah I agree. If we can all agree of what a main is(and it's really obvious which account is the main in almost all circumstances), we can use common sense.


If this exists, there is no purpose on a baseline/rule whatsoever. Rules don't have to always be good, they just have to be good most of the times. Pick a criteria and stick to it, no common sense or arbitrariness. The last time "common sense" was used to pick sides it caused a big forum drama fight between Outlaws and 101st because it wasn't so "common" after all.

As for the criteria in use, points is just bad. Levels would probably be more fair. Something like "highest level with activity in the past 10 days" would ensure inactive old accounts are not going to be involved + ensure newer accounts with less activity which were used for a ladder reroll or something were not taken as the main (several cases listened in above posts).

3. We will permit 8 substitutions per clan due to the clarification on 1.


This is where 80% of the loopholes in here come from. EIGHT substitutions? That's a massive lot. At least cut that considerably if you want to avoid abusing.




tl;dr clan league being clan league. Seems like we've got a lot of stuff to learn from past mistakes, still.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 15:19:07


Ω Cat Juggernaut 
Level 59
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Hate to jump on the bandwagon here, but at the very least, I can show that not only top tier clans are having a problem with this.

1. A player must be a member of their clan for the entire duration of the clan league. If they leave the clan for whatever reason, they must be substituted immediately. When creating a game, if a player is not in the clan they are representing, the CLOT will award a loss for that game.


This is, at best, irritating; at worst, malicious. Rather than penalize the clan automatically for something they have limited control over, the CLOT should suspend the game until a replacement can be chosen.

2. A player must play on their main account and not place an alt in another clan to sidestep these rules. A main account is defined as the account which has earned the most points earned in the last 30 days.


This I don't understand at all, and I have 2 major issues with it. 1st, as LeQuébécois_Benoit so helpfully outlined using my clan as an example, it creates moral dilemmas in skilled players preparing to leave non-elite clans (ex. Juggernauts). The 2nd issue, echoing what everyone else here is saying, is that you released this rule too late. And for this once, I'm going to make an exception to my normally respectful tone to the leaders of CL. Are you out of your fucking mind? I'm under the impression this is something you've put a lot of thought into, which means you were likely considering this at the very least while you were calling for template votes. But you wait to announce it until nearly a full week after template votes are closing, and almost halfway through the time you allotted to select rosters? And the only restitution is a pitiful week extension, when most clans are planning and considering their rosters months in advance? This is nothing short of unacceptable.

TL;DR: If you think this is the right course, that's your decision. But this should not take effect this season, you simply haven't given near enough notice.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 16:06:54


Quicksilver
Level 57
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As I understand it -

Rule 1 has already been posted right at the start of cl9 preparations. It's to stop a repeat of the Outlaws/101st debacle. With the new rule the players that left to join Outlaws would have to immediately quit playing for 101st.

I agree with this rule + I feel like this rule has been posted months ago.


Rule 2 is new, however. It will possibly put a wrench into 101st's plans for their lineup. Not sure, I'll have to ask them. But afaik there was no advance warning of this and it's annoying to announce rule changes that affect lineups when we've already put a bunch of effort into preparing our lineups. So, this rule should be postponed until next clan league.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/13/2017 16:22:12


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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Based on the responses so far, we can agree that this was short notice. So let's go ahead with CL9 as planned(without the rules stated yesterday).

  • Any player present in a clan's roster must also be a member of that clan on the date of the submission deadline.
  • If a player with accounts in 2 clans is enlisted by both clans, they will be removed from both clans' rosters. The player can clarify with the CL panel who they wish to play for.

However, we would like to start to this discussion surrounding alts/main and who should participate for a clan and hopefully have it in place before next season. To that effect, we'll invite everyone who has had something constructive to say, to a discussion.
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/14/2017 11:19:52

krunx 
Level 59
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Based on the responses so far, we can agree that this was short notice. So let's go ahead with CL9 as planned(without the rules stated yesterday).


I really appreciate, that the panel did recognize the posts here and had the courage to change this.

However, we would like to start to this discussion surrounding alts/main and who should participate for a clan and hopefully have it in place before next season. To that effect, we'll invite everyone who has had something constructive to say, to a discussion.


Personally I would not differ between alts and mains. There are way to many reason to not play with your main for example:
having main in a clan that does not participate in CL
beeing in your early day clan with your main and having your rl-friends over there, but want to play in CL for a more competetive clan
...
Clan League 9 Roster + Lineup: 1/14/2017 16:20:47


(ง︡'-'︠)ง let's fight!! 
Level 60
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Good that I read this today, when decisions were redone.

I remember when Clan leaders voted for Templates and its Order they agreed to the rules to that Date.

So, You have made the right decision to redo it.
So the Deadline ist again 21st January?
The Main is the Account who played in CL8?

If so, please also Change the information at the Spreadsheet again.

PS: I would like to participate in the discussion to Mains/alts

AND if you really really really really have to Change rules like this, PLEASE do not only in a thread. Write PMs to both Clan leaders or write it in a Chat games in its entirety

If you write 'the Deadline for roster Lineup Submission is 1/21/2017'
And below that 'please See [Link to this thread]' like you did in the vote game
Then I only think that the information you have stated before can also be seen in this thread.
That was really close that I even read it. Wasnt really active in Threads the Last time.

But I am happy that the rules were changed to the previous.

Edited 1/14/2017 16:40:13
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