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Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/21/2017 04:47:02


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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Assume that crazy ethnic nationalists and Islamists with nukes and ethnic bioweapons exterminated everyone that is not black and left most of Eurasia, North America etc waste.

Now the weak African and Caribbean countries are suddenly faced with the complete end to all foreign aid and inability to maintain infrastructure. (Yes there are educated people in Africa. However I doubt they can keep the internet connection between Africa and the Caribbeans working. In fact I doubt they can even maintain enough airplanes for something similar to UN to continue. I believe they can keep the internet on within Africa though.)

Hence we will have two diplo games, one for Africa and one for the Carribeans. The two games should be independent of each other.

Some key differences between this scenario and other scenarios:

1.The income should be low. After the apocalypse there are no whites or Asians left to sell Africans tanks and other vehicles. Nobody will arrive in Africa to help Africans repair their broken stuff either. More importantly the market for oil and minerals will collapse as well so having a lot of coltan for example does not really make one rich. Some infrastructure can be saved especially in wealthier nations but not much.

2.Communication between countries far away from each other should be hard. Hence normal fog will be used. There will be no satellites or airplanes from Namibia to investigate whether Kenya has attacked Ethiopia without declaration of war. In fact if such an event happens I doubt West Africa can know that within six months.

Edited 2/21/2017 15:58:18
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/21/2017 07:10:21


Japanball
Level 56
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And then the Japanese, Americans etc on ISS return and rule the world
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/21/2017 12:23:37


Leibstandarte (Vengeance)
Level 45
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I am in.
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/21/2017 13:06:43


Remove Kebab
Level 58
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^ same
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/21/2017 13:19:51


Zephyrum 
Level 60
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Tabby and his ethnic apocalypse fanfic.
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/21/2017 14:30:07


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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@PoF Where are they going to land? Ethnic bioweapons against whites and East Asians are everywhere and blacks don't necessarily have cleanrooms to protect ten to twenty people from any viruses or facilities to accept transportation from space. Landing in Eurasia means death.

However if these people do manage to survive they will try to contact black governments to land on Planet Earth. If they indeed manage to survive they will probably train scientists and technicians their host countries while isolated in cleanrooms. I'm pretty sure all remaining countries will compete for the ability to host them. Their descendants may rule after many years but not at the moment. Right now they are treasured experts in cleanrooms in formerly relatively rich African countries such as South Africa and Nigeria. I bet South Africa will host all of them which gives the country significant help.

Edited 2/21/2017 14:37:16
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/21/2017 15:40:09


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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My prediction:

Communication in Africa and between the Caribbeans and Africa will stay for some time before it deteriorates.

Caribbeans:

Tourism-based countries such as Barbados will have be hit heavily. Hence they will return to substance farming. Mines and sugar plantations will be largely shut down since I really don't know where they can sell minerals and sugarcanes. Nuclear pollution should be heavy close to what used to be the States and fishing is hard.

In essence a bunch of Jamaicas and Haitis.

Haiti may try to annex what used to be the Dominican Republic. Blacks in Guyana, Surinam etc may try to expand into the rest of South America.

West Africa:
Nigeria will still exist though plagued by rebels it can not suppress. Liberia and Sierra Leone may become chaotic. The cocoa industry in Ivory Coast will be hit hard since the West African chocolate market is very small. The oil market will be largely destroyed since Africans can not refine most of their oil and refineries abroad no longer exist.

Central Africa:
Central African Republuc, South Sudan and DR Congo will be completely chaotic. Rwanda, Uganda etc will advance into Eastern DRC with impunity.

East Africa:
The states will largely stay.

Southern Africa:
South Africa will be plagued by the death of non-blacks and as a result a sudden loss of skilled workers. Botswana will be plagued by not being able to sell its resources. Zambia will have a lot of copper to make copper coins but the collapse of the copper market will hit the country hard.

In a nut shell, infrastructure will be broken, many raw materials largely useless and countries will try to adapt to the new situation.

Edited 2/21/2017 15:54:22
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/21/2017 16:41:15


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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Hmmm, looks an interesting scenario, but I'd like to offer some corrections to it in order to make it slightly more realistic.


For the death thingy, I don't believe there's any way to kill only whites/asians and leave only blacks alive since there's no actual dna difference between peoples of difference colour. Scientifically it's near impossible. I'd probably switch to just a world war or maybe a terrorist attack using conventional/nuclear weapons to clear all developped countries with no regards to race.


For what comes next, I think the world would go nuts, but not in the way you said. Communications would probably still exist well, only thing that would go out is probably the internet because of how it exists currently, but it could be fixed in a few years if you have the knowledge to do it. Outside of that, communications wouldn't regress much, telephone landlines and radio is just dependent of local installations and would probably be prioritized since internet is shutdown. I'd say communications would at max regress to 1970-1980's levels.


Airplanes would be fine so long as you have oil and refineries for it, Africa has plenty of oil very high quality oil that doesn't need too much refining, the Carribian would depend in wether they're able to keep the gulf production, but since it's a very very complex operation to keep and it lacks refining, I'd say probably worthless.


For technical reparations, both spaces lack seriosuly of the qualified people to fix these things, plus because of massive brain drain the universities don't form a lot of people that stay in their countries, and if you go with the scenario no one left outside of the caribian/africa, that'd be a huge problem. However, there's some colleges with good levels in Africa, I don't know how much stockpiled knowledge they have (in their servers + books), but it could be possible to fix this problem in a few decades range with favourable conditions.


Which goes to my final point, favourable conditions. It won't have much, and I'd focus on that. With a world in chaos, the trade chain would probably be totally gone. Most of these countries are highly reliable in a few commodities that are exported or cheap labour offered by multinationals while they import a lot of things like diversied food and advanced goods.

I'd say that widespread famine, diseases and disruption in goods supply would provoke massive civil unrest. With that adding that there's a lot of communities clashes already in Africa (Muslims and Christians, Tribes, local warlords, ...); I'd put a full scale civil and international wars in the few years following the crisis, which would put any rebuilding programs decades if not centuries later until different stable countries form again.


Keeping all of that in mind, I'd say that a realistic scenario would have:
- light fog
- widely different incomes depending of the region: highly populated, oil producing and farm rich ones with lots of income while most of the places with worthless income.
- lots of slots for players but also tons of Ais for warlords and local powers + neutrals. Maybe keep player slots for a few weakened countries? Also break up countries with large spatial different religions/cultures to add reality.
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/21/2017 19:17:29


Stewie
Level 51
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if this is gonna be a warlight game, why is it on OT?

EDIT: also invite me in if this game ever goes live.

Edited 2/21/2017 19:18:09
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/21/2017 20:57:56


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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^Because it might be a bit sensitive.

^^When ethnic bioweapons are invented that will be possible. Humans do have some variations genetically. What I worry about is whether extremists from the advanced groups (Jews, non-Jewish whites, East Asians, Indians) as well as Middle Eastern Muslims can use them for racial/ethnoreligious extermination purposes. Remember that all Eurasians are more related to each other than we are to Africans genetically. Hence in the worst case we will just destroy ourselves completely due to some stupid extreme ethnic nationalist and the world literally goes black.

I believe Jews, whites, East Asians and Muslims are all likely to mess up while non-Abrahamic Indians may be the only Eurasian group standing if all hell break loose. Mestizos in the Americas may also stay if the ethnic bioweapons aimed at whites and East Asians do not kill them as well. If either group survives they will rule the world. However if Pakistanis try to nuke India and Mestizos are killed it will be the end of Eurasia/Eurasians and a return to the black world, the world where all homo sapiens were black and lived in Africa.

The economy of the Caribbeans will be largely destroyed because they rely too much on (non-black) tourism and (non-black) farming/mining. If non-blacks are not around they can't sell most of their minerals. Furthermore they can't refine them anyway. More importantly Africa at least has more black intellectuals and is less dependent on non-blacks than the Caribbeans.

If we talk about Sub-Saharan Africa (Arabs are dead and North Africa is nuked) note that they will lose their entire non-black population to ethnic bioweapons. Hence something worse than what happened in Mozambique after the Portuguese left will happen. No whites. No Indians. No Chinese. Black businessmen may be happy that the powerful white multinational corporations and Lebanese/Chinese/Indian shopkeepers who are more successful than them are finally gone. However they will have a lot of factories that they can't run (and more importantly maintain). The problem with black Africans isn't that they are entirely devoid of intellectuals. However intelligent people without enough resources still can not get problems solved.

Most of the minerals in Africa are useful because of non-blacks who actually refine them and make them useful. With non-blacks gone uranium etc are largely useless. Oil can at least be refined in the few refineries in Africa or just be burned as fuel. Copper can at least be used to make some coins and ornaments. Some diamonds may still be cut in Namibia and South Africa.

Communication is likely to be disrupted. With all non-blacks gone I doubt whether even one new airplane can be manufactured. I believe communication within Africa should still be feasible. However communication between Africa and the Caribbeans can be hard. Maybe the black leaders can gather in South Africa for one last international conference and then Africa and the Caribbeans will be separated for years.

Politically the stronger African states can still stay while the weaker ones will simply disappear. With non-blacks and the UN gone it becomes a winner-takes-all internationally. Countries such as Somalia will simply be abolished and countries such as Uganda will grab land for free. Take Eastern DR Congo anyway since Kinshasa probably won't know it (let alone attempts to stop it since they can't drive there).

South Africa may be the strongest nation left in the world, followed by Nigeria, Namibia, Angola, Kenya, Ethiopia, Tanzania, etc. In the long run blacks in South America may manage to spread to the entire continent, Central America and Mexico as well. They may even manage to recolonize a large part of Oceania and Southeast Asia after many years.

Edited 2/21/2017 21:26:02
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/21/2017 21:38:09


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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Furthermore there are indeed a few black people who continue to exist outside Africa and the Caribbeans in this scenario. Extermination is both gene-based (using ethnic bioweapons) and territory-based (using nukes). Hence if you live in Germany or China you will simply be dead even if you are black. However the Philippines or Mexico will not be completely unpopulated. The few blacks who live there as students, diplomats etc will be the only humans left in their respective countries. Hence what used to be Thailand for example might be completely unpopulated outside Bangkok where a few black diplomats and their families exist. Communication might be hard but these people might actually repopulate these locations. Maybe a new ethnic group can be formed from this group?

Even Brazil is likely to continue to exist either as one nation or as several nations minus its white, pardo and Japanese population which means it suffers from a very severe depopulation. It can be largely chaotic but some governments or gangs may still exist.

Edited 2/21/2017 22:38:15
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/21/2017 23:04:15


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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When it comes to gene differences, it's way too complicated to explain in details, but it doesn't work like that. Effective, bioweapons aren't able to differentiate from species to species with accurate precision, let alone specific genes.

The hole misconception of the human species, is that we have races, the truth is that there isn't enough differences between human populations to declare the existance of races. In dogs for example the difference between a chihuahua and a hotweiller is big enough so that we can say there are races, but not big enough so that we can declare different species.


The adn difference between a white and an asian is aproximately zero (as a matter of fact between a human and a chimp there is 98,8% adn equivalence, aka 98,8% the same genes). If you'd have a 0,1% gene difference between you and your neighboor you'd be of a totally different species.

So what's the difference? A few very rare genes but the reality is that globably we all have mostly the same genes, with a few small exceptions, but still rather hard to spot these differences based in population.

The true difference that exists is within the genes. So between a blue eyed person and a brown eyed one, we have the same genes for viewing things, but a same gene can exist within different forms called alleles, which will then give the eyes their colours.


Now these allele differences are real, and it's basically the thing that makes people being different from each other, but so much as I am different than you, you are different from your black neighbour, and yet it is very possible that a white and a black have way more alleles in common than a white and another white, because skin colour comes not from genetic difference, but allelic one. The difference from having a white skin to a brown, yellow, red, ... one is only one allele.

Now, isolated populations tend to have different alleles one from each other because of populationnal fluctuation and evolution. So it is very likely that let's say for a tribe in sudan and one in congo, it is possible because of alleles that 100% of the tribe in sudan has A+ blood, while the congolese tribe will have 100% B-, and it's very possible that they have loads of different allele combinations widespread differences, but yet no genomic difference.


All of that to say, it is VERY, VERY, hard to kill all whites, indians, asians, ... and to keep just blacks, because there is very little genomic difference in the individual level, in the group level there is absolutely none. The only genetic thing that binds all blacks, or whites, or asians, together is one single allele responsible for your skin colour, which is A very hard to find, B let alone to target it specifically and C it's probably impossible without a bio-virus that is able to just see that you have a single allele, it's probably too hard for a living disease to find that.


And that's really because of how genetics work, seriously, It'd be easier for me to build a homemade nuke than it would be for the top 100 actual scientists to make that virus in a decade of work. The real truth that supremacists love to brand that we're all so different isn't true at any level, the human kind is in fact so homogeneous that you can take the two farest apart possible average humans when it comes to genetics that they'd be still able to learn the same stuff, do nearly the same sports and have kids that will be able to reproduce.


PS: Sorry if I bored someone to death with this xD.
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/22/2017 00:36:33


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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^There is this thing here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Y-chromosome_DNA_haplogroup
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Y-chromosome_DNA_haplogroup#/media/File:Haplogroup_F_(Y-DNA).PNG

What if someone targets a particular Y-chromosome haplogroup?

No it has nothing to do with skin color, just genes. There are plenty of Indians that are as dark as black Africans but are certainly not considered African.

Furthermore "ethnic supremacism" isn't inherently dangerous if it does not reach ethnic exterminationism.

Edited 2/22/2017 00:40:04
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/22/2017 01:22:16


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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looking at this map, pffff

while these are the genetic differences, noone really identifies themselves ethnically by these, and this map is not even really as silly as others since it only shows majorities and is only a broad map.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Haplogroup_R1b_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG

I mostly identify as Irish-Spanish-northPortuguese-Calais-Niçois-Lombard-Bashkir, but I also identify as English-Icelandish-Norwegian-Danish-German-French-Extramaduran-Türkmen-southPortuguese, and a little bit also of Ethiopian-Turkish-Persian-Polish-Tuvan-Arkhangelski-Georgian-Swedish.

I don't think anyone's going to have a vendetta out for the Irish-Spanish-northPortuguese-Calais-Niçois-Lombard-Bashkirs.
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/22/2017 01:28:23


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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^That's because ethnicity is a stupid concept while race based on haplogroups is scientific.

Edited 2/22/2017 01:28:36
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/22/2017 01:38:00


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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well sorry Tabby, but most folk don't identify themselves or others by their haplogroups, but mostly by ethnicity, which makes more sense, since the same ethnicities will speak the same tongue, have the same culture, and live somewhat near each other/in the same jurisdictions. I've never heard karl promote or hate the Irish-Spanish-northPortuguese-Calais-Niçois-Lombard-Bashkir race.

Edited 2/22/2017 01:39:00
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/22/2017 01:58:27


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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A human was born with his/her genes and no culture. Hence race exists. However ethnic identity is only imposed by the society he/she is in and is not an inherent property of him/her at all.

According to Felinism the former makes sense while the latter does not since an individual can change his/her cultural affiliation.

Edited 2/22/2017 02:00:44
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/22/2017 02:05:41


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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I'm much more alike to an average Portugoy today than to my forefathers 200 years ago, despite being much more genetically nearer to my forefathers.

but this is irrelevant:

folk don't identify themselves or others by haplogroups; whether they should is another frain.
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/22/2017 02:08:50


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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^Ironically this lack of knowledge in science is certainly good for blacks. If people are aware of evolution their position will worsen.

Edited 2/22/2017 02:32:33
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/22/2017 02:57:41


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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k...
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/22/2017 19:21:36


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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Haplogroups are just combinations of populations with similar genomic composition in the allelic level, not including tons of genes differences (as I said, we have very little genomic difference as a hole from individuals to individuals, and as group to group difference goes it's almost 0 the difference).

And so far as allelic difference goes, it's really hard to make viruses targeting people with specific alleles because of how small of a difference they impose: it's very likely that in trying to make a very deadly virus that could wipe out billions you'd have a hard time being able to choose which billions you want to kill. Probably even if you managed to target a few set of alleles you'd still have a virus that would just kill all the rest by mistake due to small mutations (while for example a virus targeted to kill rats would have a harder time to mutate into something that kills humans).



Furthermore "ethnic supremacism" isn't inherently dangerous if it does not reach ethnic exterminationism.


Being dumb isn't dangerous so long as you don't make stupid things to other people, problem is, often you could harm others, thus ethnic supremacism, other than not being based in hard scientific evidence, often generates in violence by some individuals having that ideology.


As for scientific knowledge, I wouldn't say whites are so far ahead of blacks when it comes to absolute population knowing science. If less than 1 percent of africans get proper scientific knowledge, I doubt the numbers pass 10% in America.

Mostly people are ignorant when it comes to science. I've got 2 years of science in high school (I choose the scientific specialisation and got very good teachers to pass knowledge) and yet I don't believe I know nearly as much as I'd like to.


And it's a shame that the world knows so little of science, it really is a thing that could give us years of advancement if we could increase the potential engineer/biologist/physicist/... pool.
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/22/2017 19:28:28


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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^The problem is that there are concrete incentives to ethnic supremacism. The incentive is basically material interests.

For example if I were an Indian I could claim that Indians are supreme while black Africans are not actually Homo sapiens. (I can even find some scientific evidence for that along the lines of what constitutes a species and then declare blacks to be a separate species from Eurasians, including Indians based on evolution and genetics. See https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/ca/World_Map_of_Y-DNA_Haplogroups.png Unless what constitutes a species is redefined I might be able to legitimately have this claim.) The purpose of my claim is to make Uganda a settler colony of India and expel all blacks from it. My personal incentive is to get a farm in what is now Uganda. Of course I won't just stop at Uganda since I want the farmlands in what is now Kenya as well.

Whether some people are actually superior to others do not matter. What matters is that people can get some interests out of ethnic cleansing.

Edited 2/22/2017 19:46:00
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/22/2017 19:51:14


TeamGuns 
Level 58
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The truth is that it is self interest all along. Rich and powerful people got to use falsehoods to increase their power when convincing others that such a theory is true. The poor/uninformed will focus in the idea that they may be poor but others are worse than them because they're a superior race or/and will blame such groups from screwing them over in some way.
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/26/2017 06:09:16


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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Yep.

Let's start the game. Shall we do different regions separately?
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/26/2017 17:36:54


Cata Cauda
Level 58
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I skipped most of what has been written here.

If there is a way to only target people with a certain amount of Melanin in their skin-cells, it is definetely possible to create biological weapons that only target non-black people.
You can already put genes into bacteria by shooting them with heavier atoms (Gold for example) that are covered with your extracted genes. With a very low chance and a lot of time you could eventually create a virus or bacteria that only target people with lighter skin (Differed on their amount of Melanin on their skin-cells). However said Virus or Bacteria could be doomed to dangerous mutations.
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/26/2017 18:35:56


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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^I'm not worried about ethnic bioweapons targeting all non-blacks/Eurasians. Instead I worry about freaks of Eurasian ancestry such as Islamists and National Socialists use nukes and ethnic bioweapons against others of Eurasian ancestry which end up devouring the entire Eurasia.

I have hope for Indians since they are the least crazy humans with nukes in all of Eurasia. Jews have the Haredim and Kahanists. Muslims have Sunni and Shia Islamism. White Europeans have National Socialism and extreme ethnic nationalism. East Asians have extreme ethnic nationalism and something close to National Socialism. What's worse is that all these people have nukes. Indians are sane though they might nuke Pakistan if nuked by it first. If they go crazy and decide to nuke/use ethnic bioweapons/etc against each other we might have the black world as a result.

Who do I worry about the most? Islamists, German/Austrian ultranationalists, Slavic ultranationalists and Chinese ultranationalists. These people can be completely insane if they ever get their hands on WMDs.

Edited 2/26/2017 18:50:09
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/26/2017 21:19:21


Stewie
Level 51
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now I know you like arguing and such, but any chance to give a set date and info for the diplo? I'm more interested in the game.

Edited 2/26/2017 21:19:29
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 2/26/2017 21:20:30


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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I will start it within a week.
Post-Apocalypse Diplo: 3/3/2017 03:17:04


(((Tabby Juggernaut)))
Level 53
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As promised I will create the game.
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