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Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/10/2017 18:50:03


Platinum
Level 59
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(Puss in boots reference in Title if anybody got that +1 to you)

I would like to give a comment about the last seasonal! Congratulations to Mod to his seasonal win , The template was at first not what I wanted but ultimately I grew myself into it and found it ultimately refreshing with the bonus values! I suppose the seasonal ladder is where we can get this "refreshment" feeling instead of the same template over and over and over again!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7eiv5aElMZs The ladders for some people can be depressing and repetitive like this song so that's why I believe the seasonal ladders are popular!

Now , Considering there has been a FFA on the seasonal ladder before , I believe it would be nice to try a team seasonal as it would be refreshing. If we go for a 1v1 template , I feel we will play a old 1v1 template like Phobia which is fine but I don't know is that why players play this ladder.. if there was a 1v1 template like French Brawl or Africa we would hear of it by now , I don't think we have the option of a new refreshing template this seasonal which is a key difference to past seasonals!

I would like the idea to be discussed and thought of by the community. I won't be crying in my sleep if this doesn't get in .. unlike last seasonal where Small Earth didn't make it.

I assume since the FFA seasonal was 4 players using common sense , A 2v2 seasonal would be the best to accommodate speed. Using a voting stream or poll to decide the template whatever Fizzer sees best. If the general idea is given the go Light!

There are obviously tons of points that hasn't been discussed here , So here's the chance for people to be that "one guy who points out everything" , I just wanted to outline the skeleton of the idea in the main post.
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/10/2017 18:54:34


Quicksilver
Level 58
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Macedonia No Split
Georgia Army Cap with bomb card
Duel Island


These are fun, and pretty different templates, although I don't know much about what templates have been played in past seasonals.

I'm sure we can think of more too. I agree that African Elitism was a brilliant choice, even though I hated it at first. I don't want 2v2, that would be shit, but I do want another new interesting template.
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/10/2017 18:56:29


Platinum
Level 59
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Wow! You see how long that post was? I probably put more time into this post then my social life O_O

https://warlight.uservoice.com/forums/77051-warlight-features/suggestions/18581662-a-team-ladder-seasonal

Thanks PS for reminding me this exists!
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/10/2017 18:59:45


master of desaster 
Level 64
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thank you!

How would you create matchups? would you prefer a Team seasonal with changing teammates and one player winning, or a seasonal with set Teams and 2 winners of the same team?

on the 1st case it will surely give a lot of Problems with unreliable teammates, on 2nd there will be much less Players participating.

Edited 3/10/2017 19:05:02
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/10/2017 19:05:01

Rento 
Level 58
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I asked Fizzer on stream if we'll get to vote on a seasonal template again, he said that maybe in the future but not this time, sadly.

Just FYI

Edited 3/10/2017 19:05:28
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/10/2017 19:11:25


Platinum
Level 59
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@Quicksilver , I like your thinking and if their is a new interesting template , I would probably be up for that too but I think it's unsustainable to always rely on a new template as personally I don't think there is enough supply for every one season for enough people to like. I also doubt there would be enough support for any of the templates you mentioned like Macedonia and Georgia , I never even heard of Duel Islands so that's probably not a good sign.

@Mod Yes I can see a flaw in that idea because not everyone likes 2v2s or team games in general. But I think with the amount of clans around these days , If you look at last seasonal ladder , Almost 40+ would be in a clan. So , I think there would be more probability to find a partner now then let's say 3 or 4 years ago. There are always going to be a flaw in a seasonal , For last seasonal the colour problem was a problem for many and I personally felt a lot of players rage quitted for that reason or another , I dont have official stats to support this , I'm just a person trusting his gut instinct. There's always a issue no matter what format or template we pick. This is this formats issue :P

In the scenario someone doesn't GT along with people but want to play , You can always play with your alt! ALTs aren't encouraged but are allowed aslong as not abused. Which I hope wouldn't be , Key word there is hope..
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/10/2017 19:20:12


master of desaster 
Level 64
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I'm sure there would be many People joining, but especially on the lower end most Players usually don't know when a season start and they surely wouldn't look for a teammate. so there would be still a competitive seasonal but with waaay less Players if you have to find a teammate before it starts so that's a problem
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/10/2017 19:21:56


Platinum
Level 59
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@Rento Fizzer is our sugar daddy who gives us this delicious game to enjoy! When Fizzer had his choice he picked awful templates Commanders and LD and then the commanders. People didn't like except for a few!

Why did Fizzer remove what was a awesome feature for members to get a say in our ladder?

Two reasons.

1. The backlash over voting , Poorly done but that was because he done it out of the blue! It's a viable way to get a solid template.

2. He doesn't like what was voted , Fizzer didn't like Africa so he wanted to have to control over templates , As Fizzer would want a ladder he wants with a balance of what the community wants. If I remember...

This adds to the concern of having a disliked template that nobody wanted in the first place again!
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/10/2017 19:28:55


Platinum
Level 59
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@Mod Your welcome btw from Main message. That's again another problem but there's a pretty easy solution to that. Whenever there is a change to something the changes are always communicated through the community tab pretty visible, So the change can be pretty communicated that a team seasonal is going to happen.

Can it be communicated well enough? Well , I would argue that's where a game innovator holds responsibility for. Personally , If I was Fizzer's Dog I would be biting at his leg for not using the mail feature to communicate the WarLight shop and other WarLight features!

Disclaimer: I have no intent on being a dog... Obviously a cat would be more fitting!

But in general if your a low end player , Finding the ladders would be tough. you look at the top of WarLight none of the headings would give you a impression, A competitive ladder is behind any of those tabs. I believe this is a more general problem that Fizzer has to deal with personally!

Edited 3/10/2017 19:30:42
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/10/2017 19:31:25


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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As much as I love team games, I wouldn't recommend a team seasonal. The FFA seasonal was hated by most people and isn't the greatest advert for team seasonals.

One of the main considerations for seasonal, should be the time taken for each game to finish. Team games take longer and it's much easier to stall there. If the first game last 10 turns which takes 2-3 days per turn, you're looking at a month to finish the first game! It's not realistic to expect 20 games on a team seasonal. Reducing the number of games from 20 to 10 is also not an option as it takes a while for the good teams to get matched up.
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/10/2017 19:38:46


Platinum
Level 59
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Essentially , A FFA requires 4 players to commit and so does a 2v2 in that case. I don't know if team games take that much time , If you look at team games in CL the lower the division you go , Generally the faster it goes. So I would see it as a Top end problem and If I was in that scenario the incentive for playing fast would be less games at a time to play! Because the less games you are in the more focus you can bring. I can see top teams doing this strategy to gain a psychological advantage! Hence faster seasonal.

I'm no expert on ladders, so I don't know about reducing games versus the technicalities of having how many games for this seasonal. Hell , I can't even climb one without getting down because of getting scared of heights even though your only 1-2 ft off the ground..

Edited 3/10/2017 19:41:29
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/10/2017 19:44:08


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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I don't know if team games take that much time , If you look at team games in CL the lower the division you go , Generally the faster it goes. So I would see it as a Top end problem
Team games take more time. Look at most competitive team games and you'll see they take 2-3 days per turn.

If I was in that scenario the incentive for playing fast would be less games at a time to play! Because the less games you are in the more focus you can bring.
What if an opponent is slowing down the game? This incentive doesn't matter to stallers(who would do it when they've lost).

Edited 3/10/2017 19:48:35
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/10/2017 19:59:35


Platinum
Level 59
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I'm never going to win a coding debate against you motd and most would say if I continue I'm going to make myself look like an idiot, So I decided to give myself the dunce hat on my profile.

Now.. Yes team games take more time but I'm just saying they don't an extreme amount of time longer like Division A that's what I'm saying. You can simply reduce the length of games or simply increase the seasonal. Or go crazy and double the games! Only the fittest will survive!

Well doesn't autofinish exist for this purpose? my understanding was that if you don't play extremely fast you lowered the chance of getting high match ups because your rating wouldn't be high because your games are on going. So In that way you can get "punished" if you wish.
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/10/2017 20:12:49


Master of the Dead 
Level 63
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Well doesn't autofinish exist for this purpose?
Auto-finish is not healthy for a ladder(and most people would agree). If the format you suggest relies on that, it's a bad sign in my opinion.

my understanding was that if you don't play extremely fast you lowered the chance of getting high match ups because your rating wouldn't be high because your games are on going. So In that way you can get "punished" if you wish.
Yeah definitely. But this wasn't my concern. If I'm clearly winning a game, a staller has more opportunities to delay a team game and pretend like they had a chance, than on a 1v1 game ;)
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/10/2017 20:24:55


Platinum
Level 59
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I wouldn't say the format would have to rely on the auto game feature, There has to be some reliance though so seasonals can move from one season to another! I would prefer amount of games decreased or the seasonal increased. Of course!

Well , We know stallers won't be exterminated. I would love to see seasonal bans for players like Alhazi for stalling because it's more effective on seasonals. If there is no measures put in place to deter cheaters.. Well , Let's just go for the autofinish! Luckily for us it's a minority problem but it will grow and grow as time goes and at some stage there will need to be some kind of action in the future! You're definitely right but it's a general problem no matter what kind of seasonal you go for!

Edited 3/10/2017 20:25:33
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/11/2017 15:55:40

Cid Highwind
Level 57
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I would absolutely love to see more team oriented WarLight, as that is all I really want to play. I came from MMO style play, where 54+ people events are the norm, and really enjoy working with larger groups of people to win events

I was discussing a Team League with Benoit and Great Expanse some last year, but that idea didn't seem to gain much traction. Maybe after CL ends, we can bring it up again.
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/11/2017 16:29:39


ps 
Level 60
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a few years back i did 3 v 3 clot where team mates would be picked randomly for each game from rating tiers. the players would be matched with and against players of same skill level and learning to play with random team mates was part of the challenge. it only ran for a couple of months but was pretty successful imho, had around 25 players active afaicr, i gave it up at the time because it had no growth potential since CLOT's were not advertised on the warlight dashboard page.

anyways, that would be the best way to get teams sorted for such a seasonal ladder imho.

Edited 3/11/2017 16:32:05
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/11/2017 18:07:33

Qi 
Level 55
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PS, mind creating something like this again, if enough people express interest? I'll play.

The idea of creating your own team for the team ladders has always been rather unfair. If you are good and you know good players, your team will reach first without much trouble (and then you'll get a great sense of self-satisfaction, much like playing open games in which your team is predetermined and the other team is a mixed group of skill levels and ability to cooperate together). If you aren't that good or don't know the right people, your team won't do as well. And playing the same template again and again with the same teammate(s) gets boring.

The only problem: Too many weak people on WL. ''I don't want to play with X because he says bad things. I don't want to play with Y, he is on my blacklist.'' Players on WL take sportsmanship to an extreme level, but the most basic part of sportsmanship is being willing and able to cooperate with any teammate, no matter who it is.
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/11/2017 19:33:12


Onoma94 
Level 60
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Team season would be interesting one for sure! This could be a nice special for, say, a season XXX (a round number :).

Of course time is a main problem, for that season would simply take longer, for example 90 days. Usually there's so much space between seasons anyway. There could be some more time used for advertising the season as well, so potential players have more time to make teams. There shouldn't be any problem with announcing the season, for example, 1 or 2 weeks before.

Another problem is template, but I think simply a voting could be done. There are enough great and popular 2v2 templates to not be stuck to Final Earth, and none used on ladders yet.

Maybe it wouldn't go as smoothly as it preferably would, but what's seasonal ladder without some drama? :)

Edited 3/11/2017 19:34:05
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/12/2017 00:33:55


LeQuébécois_Benoit
Level 62
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That CLOT 3v3 of ps surely seemed interesting and a team seasonal would be amazing, in particular if the guy that wins it is the guy that is able to win most games with different teammates. The only problem would be if we are paired with people really bad at the start of the ladder or people we really can't get along with. Maybe a normal 2v2 ladder with the same partner all the way along would be better.
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/12/2017 21:09:18


ps 
Level 60
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Qi: i been thinking of recovering some of those clots, even uploaded them to new host (openshift) with a proper database, but they need some code refactoring to use it without manual maintenance and i just been too lazy to invest my free time programming this kind of server stuff that i find boring. so, maybe if i'm bored enough one of these weekends it might come back. if anyone with php knowledge wants to pick it up the source code is online and i'm available to give protips on how to set it up and what needs refactoring and testing.
Is It Time For A Team Seasonal?: 3/13/2017 19:19:58


Dogberry
Level 57
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Two other options not mentioned yet that would allow for some semblance of a team experience in the seasonal ladder could include each player being deliberately paired with an alt under their own control (yes, this would be logistically difficult, but there are multiple ways that this could be successfully accomplished, to include single use alts being created only for the season) or even being paired with an AI.

Also, anything that promotes team play in Warlight is a wonderful thing.

Edited 3/13/2017 19:20:33
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