I didn't realize I needed to expound upon "ugh" (seemed self-explanatory) so:

- Commanders are very polarizing. There are a lot of people who don't care for them. In fairness, I totally get using them for a seasonal or two in order to show off some of the game's features, but 3 out of 6 seasons feels like it's being shoved down our throats.

- "Fizzer didn't get many template propositions though, so you guys can't be surprised if fizzer choses whatever commander template he thinks about first."

If there was talk about this, seems it was either rushed or buried somewhere, like usual.

- "Edit: ps just had the idea that there could be some sort of ranking or voting on the best MDL templates which haven't been used for a seasonal yet. Sounded like a nice idea to me. They would also be well tested and will have a video by then if they don't have one already by now "

+1. This is easy and logical.

Love,
Nancy

"But people who just post "Ugh" or "Yuck" aren't contributing anything and are just bringing down the mood for the people who do enjoy the settings and are here to have fun. "

The mood was brought down to the negative Nancie's when a 3rd seasonal ladder on the same map and Commander was introduced. Do players really want this Fizzer? I find it unfair to expect comments to be expanded from Bonsai , Kaerox and Min34 , When clearly you've ignored the critiscm of commanders and have pushed on with this! Some people are just tired and not bothered to right passionate essays to why they don't want it when they know there efforts are for nothing and have no relevance. If they were , There wouldn't be 3 commander seasons.

I agree with you on templates preference that some people want to play and some people don't want to play . But is it fair when there's a group of people that don't like commanders to bring them through 3 seasons of commanders in the last 6? Is this fair on those players?

I don't mind the commanders, but yet another medium earth or modified medium earth when we have so many mapmakers making a lot of great maps?

I'm challenging Fizzer to make a template so bad that even I won't join anymore! So far, still good enough for me.

Well, I might be the only one here but I really like this choice. I like commanders, and as a non-member, I don't get a lot of opportunities to play competititve games with this setting.
3 seasons of commanders is a lot if you only consider the seasonal ladders, but not so much when you look at the larger competitive scene.


Regarding the template: could I suggest making it NLC rather than cyclic?
Losing your first pick on a commander template lets you know where the enemy commander is, but in my opinion, that knowledge doesn't offset the handicap you suffer from that loss. Especially if you picked your #1 alone and your #2/#3 in a combo.
So if two players pick the same #1, I think it would be fairer to award the pick according to speed rather than luck.

rak, it must be very lonely on your commander and nlc island. I hope it's sunny and they have good drinks :)

Edited 3/12/2017 10:22:31

So if two players pick the same #1, I think it would be fairer to award the pick according to speed rather than luck.

Why? please explan this to me, i never understood it.

I don't have a problem with having an intellectual discussion about the settings here. But people who just post "Ugh" or "Yuck" aren't contributing anything and are just bringing down the mood for the people who do enjoy the settings and are here to have fun. That's why I downvoted them and I recommend others do the same.

My main problem is the map. The settings (Outside of commanders) are fine. Here's a list of all maps used on the seasonals.

Medium Earth
Season I
Season II
Season IV
Season VI
Season XXI
Season XXVIII
East Asia & Oceania
Season III
Battle Islands
Season V
Heavy Earth
Season VII
Snow Mountains
Season VIII
Season XVIII
Modified Medium Earth
Season IX
Season XI
Season XIII
Season XVI
Season XIX
Season XX
Season XIII
Season XXV
Four Castles
Season X
Turkey
Season XII
Imperium Romanium
Season XIV
Poland Big
Season XV
Ancient Greece
Season XVII
France
Season XXII
Red Dead Redemption
Season XXIV
Floating Rocks
Season XXVI
Issander's New Strategic System : Africa
Season XVII

14 out of the 28 seasons has been MME/ME. Why is it so hard to ask for more variety.

This is without mentioning that the last few seasonals have been commanders half the time.

Edited 3/11/2017 22:47:23

Regarding the template: could I suggest making it NLC rather than cyclic?
Losing your first pick on a commander template lets you know where the enemy commander is, but in my opinion, that knowledge doesn't offset the handicap you suffer from that loss. Especially if you picked your #1 alone and your #2/#3 in a combo.
So if two players pick the same #1, I think it would be fairer to award the pick according to speed rather than luck.

I completely agree with rakleader's statement.Having a bit of experience at cyclic and no-luck cyclic games(from coin ones) when it comes to Commanders,#1 and #2 pick could destroy you if you opt for a specific tactic.No-luck cycle really gives another perspective to this strategy and rewards faster picker

why should the faster picker be rewarded?

Edited 3/11/2017 23:24:25

+1 to ps (and MoD) for the idea of considering popular, proven MDL templates for future seasons. MotD: can you provide a list of the current MDL templates by least number of active vetos?

Choosing the least-vetoed MDL template (assuming it's new) for next season may increase participation and reduce complaints.

Edited 3/12/2017 00:05:50

Or, maybe this season is introduction to Commander ladder?

i agree with rak and gamerchanel !
-i think its more fair that the picking speed decides your firstpick. Like this the humans
influence it and not the game designs it for them.
- so many nice maps and again me/mme template...that is not nice

But it will make it opportune only picking after one cycle.If the 1st pick(cykel) is stronger picking fast, or even worse second when the 2-3(cykel) is stronger making it a waiting game determined by who press the button first so that they can wait the longest(which is completely random). In any case it does reduce the complexity of the picking stage considerable and to do that for the sake of not feeling unlucky for some players i think is silly

Edited 3/12/2017 09:52:43

I feel it depends on the template. With commanders it arguably is a big advantage to get first pick most of the times.

Same was the case on the last season. First pick was usually better, but it left the player that just rushed picks to get first with the worse picks over all.

I feel, since the first pick automatically places your commander, it can really hurt you to get 2nd by bad luck.

@Njord i agree 100% that an advantageous 2nd cycle order really sucks on NLC. But i argue that it's not advantageous to pick only one cycle, cause if your opponent is faster, you will simply lose most likely.

Edited 3/12/2017 10:21:55

yeah if your slowest, but people know if they are fast, so i think that for a small part of players it can be advantageous(which i do find silly). but compared to last season the overall pick quality is not as big a problem as last season given the smaller amount of picks.

But ignoring all this(as it is irrelevant as you say), i still dont understand why the fastest picker having and adv is more fair?

Edited 3/12/2017 10:23:08

With commanders it arguably is a big advantage to get first pick most of the times.

It's fair to dislike commanders, but there may not be an advantage to getting first commander pick.

Let's look at season 25, which had an infamous commander template. timon92 took first and had a perfect season, so if there is a commander disadvantage he overcame it every time.

Krzysztof (aka Krzychu, another former seasonal champ) took #2 in season 25. He only had 2 losses, and one was to timon92. The other loss was to a noob. So maybe Krzy lost the commander pick? Nope, he got his first commander pick but lost anyways. That's kray kray.

Edited 3/14/2017 18:28:39

Why is the West African bonus reduced from 4 to 3?

I couldn't be sure but It might be to reduce the amount of people that triple pick africa or double pick it. That is just a guess though although seems to be most reasonable explanation.