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Booting etiquette: 12/15/2011 15:29:11

[REGL] Bill
Level 20
I, for one, will boot someone if they go over the allotted time. In real time games, especially in later stages, I don't typically boot immediately (there's a point where you have to stop checking history, though, and take your damn turn, and if you have gone over 3 minutes without finishing your turn 3, then go away), but otherwise... if I can boot you after 2 days of inactivity, well, you had 2 days to move or go on vacation. I feel no guilt.

That said, I wanted to hear what others thought. What is your personal etiquette over booting in real-time games? Multi-day?
Booting etiquette: 12/15/2011 16:01:47

Level 55
unless you urgently want to play the game, i dont really see the point in booting. better to wait a little while than not play the game at all. so i only boot inactive players in multiday, or in real time if i have something to do and cant wait around for them/am going off the computer.

although, im playing in like 80 games, so its not like i care much if one of them takes an extra week to move along.
Booting etiquette: 12/15/2011 18:15:32

Level 12
Thanks for being upfront about it Bill. Makes it easier for me to blacklist you now. I have little interest in playing games where someone is booted. It ruins things. Win or lose I prefer to do it against humans. As long as the person has a reasonable boot rate I'll wait at least a week before I even consider booting someone. We all have lives. And unless someone is actually going on a vacation most of us don't think to set the vacation mode first. Warlight is supposed to be a game - if it becomes some responsibility that forces us to keep a tight schedule then where's the fun? What's the point in joining?

In real time games I think 10 minutes is appropriate.

I won't join a game if folks with a boot rate higher than 15% would be on my team. And I don't allow folks with anything higher than a 10% boot rate to join my games.
Booting etiquette: 12/15/2011 18:17:49

Level 9
Doesn't sound like you should blacklist bill - just create your RT games with 10 minute boot timers and if bill joins, he won't boot you until your 10 minutes are up :)
Booting etiquette: 12/15/2011 18:52:01

The Duke of Ben 
Level 55
I used to be closer to Bill's response, but I've become more like WM x's over the last couple of months.

I always ask myself this question before booting: "Will the game be better off without this person?"

Not "Will I, personally, enjoy the game more?" or even "Will this game go faster?" but actually improved by the boot. Improvement is relative, but it always goes back to the reason that I play this game. I want a challenge in a strategic game. If I wanted to roll people then I would play against the AI or invite people with less than 10 games. Booting sometimes makes the game better, but usually it makes the game worse. I do boot people who are acting poorly or dragging the game down somehow, but those instances are very rare.

Now, I still want to be able to play, and I don't want to load myself up with 100 games so that I always have one to play. Because of that, booting is sometimes necessary to get stuck games going again. It's the last option for me, though.

Since adopting that stance I find myself hardly ever booting, even for people well above their allotted time. Real time is different, but that's because the expectation is to finish in one sitting. Multi-day games don't have that expectation, so there is rarely ever a reason to boot someone from one.

I think a really high autoboot (3-5 days) is the best method for booting someone at this point. I've seen a fair number of people get booted on that schedule, but most of the time it doesn't happen. It's also very fair.

Oddly enough, I think every person who has gone above 2 days in a game with me has gone all the way to three or five days and been booted.
Booting etiquette: 12/15/2011 18:56:38

The Duke of Ben 
Level 55
I forgot to mention real time, because I don't play a lot of that.

I prefer to warn people and talk to them about their lateness, before booting. Setting a fairly high autoboot (10+ minutes) also helps with that, since they should know it's coming and can't be mad at you for booting too early.

If they go above time several turns and either don't respond or don't care about my warnings, then I feel okay booting. I'm not going to waste my time with somebody, even in a 1v1, who doesn't value my time.
Booting etiquette: 12/15/2011 19:20:46

Level 3
I tend to boot based on how likely I think the person is to come back and whether I'm winning or not.
The guy with a 20 percent boot rate that just lost his last bonus gets booted the first chance I get. The guy with only 2 boots in 500 games who is playing evenly with me, I'll wait for.

Team games are where you really have to think about booting because it will ruin the game. If you do boot you should also be prepared to vote to end right away.

At least that's my philosophy and no ones yelled at me yet and I boot people all the darn time.
Booting etiquette: 12/15/2011 19:30:50

Level 57
I like boot, i always trying boot so fast as i can. Sometimes I be in time 1 second or 2 after boot time start to boot. Honour be first and to do this very fast
Booting etiquette: 12/15/2011 19:49:30

Richard Sharpe 
Level 59
emg, along those lines, the few times I have had to boot in 2v2 games I have discussed the matter with their teammate first. Let them know my intentions and made sure they wanted to VTE. Have actually had some that want to keep playing regardless (even though they got obliterated because of it).

Of course, as you pointed out in 1v1 games, if the game is essentially decided I won't VTE simply because that would be rewarding such behavior in a way. At least rewarding his teammate.

Random question regarding booting... does it still go on your record if it is a practice game? Or is booting only reserved for ranked games?
Booting etiquette: 12/15/2011 19:53:12

Level 12
Booting goes on record even in practice games.
Booting etiquette: 12/15/2011 20:51:18

Richard Sharpe 
Level 59
Thanks Diogenes... doesn't make much sense to me that it does but no big deal.
Booting etiquette: 12/15/2011 21:27:59

Level 49
In games I create, I always do no vote or direct boot, but only auto boot, I put it in the title and warn people for it, and do not let people enter who've been booted more than 10 times, if they still get booted, it's their own fault.
Booting etiquette: 12/15/2011 23:09:04

Level 44
I find that percentage boot is more reliable then boot amount, personally..
Booting etiquette: 12/16/2011 03:34:54

[REGL] Bill
Level 20
Devil, if people want to blacklist me, then that's fine. It's a game, and people who take it so seriously that an opinion causes that... well, I'm not missing much.

I, for one, see the difference like this; if the boot time weren't good enough, the boot time would be longer. If you can't sign on and play for 5 minutes even once in 3 days, then I'm not the one showing disrespect by booting. I don't join games that I can't expect to finish fairly, and if I do disappear, then I think it's right that I should be booted. I'm not exactly certain what the problem is here? Do people not like having boots on their records? Then make smart choices.
Booting etiquette: 12/16/2011 04:41:26

Level 44
I agree with Bill's earlier statement.. People shouldn't take the game so seriously..
in RT situations, I tend to give extra time once or twice, how much is relative to original boot time, because there are extra circumstances to take into account..
MD games.. I'm not such a prick as to check each and every game for the chance to boot someone, and will instead play the games that come up and enjoy my gameplaying time...

I find MD games that are booted within an hour \*db* funny, because the booter has nothing better to do then watch to see if someone is playing
Booting etiquette: 12/16/2011 13:01:46

Level 55
booting % is often a prerequisite on games. booting a player ruins games, especially on team games (and it ends the game in 1v1s).

and im not exactly certain what the problem with waiting is. are you so desperate to get to the next turn in your games that you arent willing to wait a few days longer? people have lives outside of warlight, surprisingly. they arent delaying their moves to spite you.
Booting etiquette: 12/16/2011 14:48:29

Level 12
On one hand, Bill is arguing he boots people if they go over the limit because his time is important and he has no patience to wait.

On the other hand, Bill is also saying this is a game and people shouldn't take it seriously?

Okay, guy.

I will agree it's fine to boot someone quickly if they have a high boot rate. It's best to avoid playing with those folk in the first place. I lost a 7v7v7 game because 4 of my teammates inexplicably bailed on the first turn despite us getting GREAT starting spots. Two of them had a boot rate over 40% with more than 150 games played. How does that even happen? Agggh. Still pisses me off.

But if someone has a good boot rate (under 10), there's no reason they shouldn't be given time. Their history indicates they will not bail on the game. Kicking them out so AI can join is nice for the stats but it makes for a crappy game.
Booting etiquette: 12/16/2011 18:46:25

[REGL] Bill
Level 20
Well, yay, a convo is taking place. That's good.

Dio: You can put words in my mouth however you want, that's ok. You can think however you would like about my opinion. I came here to ask the views on others to see if there were better ways, and if you want to try and be condescending, I'm ok with that. You are twisting my point into something it's not, but hey, at least one of us is trying to have an honest convo.

I've played 20 man FFAs where everyone has taken their turn in 8 hours, save johnny yesteryear who we wait 3 days for. By the time he's booted, another player has given up, and the wait is on again.

Constantly waiting on guys beyond the amount of time they're given isn't fair to the rest of the players in general circumstances. In a 1v1, then sure, you can talk with the guy, give him a shot. in a 2v2, though, if someone regularly takes a long time to make a play (nearly 2 days) and then just disappears, then he (or she) is removing the fun of the game, and I don't see why someone thinks booting there is poor sportsmanship. I've even dumped my own teammate and surrendered a game, because the guy was just disrespecting If the argument is it ruins the game, then how is the game not already ruined?

And why is a 3 day wait before booting the preprogrammed time, but not the 'accepted' time? If the preprogrammed time were 5 days, would it still require the players to wait... what, another 3? What is the social pact here? It's not something easy to understand. Hell, it seems like it's 'whatever makes the player feel justified' is the rule. Am I wrong here? These are serious questions.

I don't understand the RT games with big maps and 2 minute boot times; that seems completely strategically mundane. If you are trying to set up 20 attack orders and spread out 100 troops in a turn, 2 minutes just doesn't give you the time. But that would be a special circumstance.

And what's a high boot rate? I've been booted twice since I played, and they were my first 2 games when I didn't understand how to place characters (and I went to RT games instead of MD games because I'm dumb). Now that I have 100 games under my belt, I think I have an understanding of the scope of the game, and basics of strategy. So, I'm here trying to learn more about the social aspect. If instead of talking about it you want to just make this "Dude, you think you're important but no one else is" then go ahead.
Booting etiquette: 12/17/2011 01:08:15

Level 4
hi this is my first post...

i had a very annoying part to play some days before...
we played a 3 vs 3 and yellow was more then 1 time overtime on 5 min...noone cared or said anything.
Then after maybe 1 hour playing yellow booted me on the first sec overtime, so my team lost....

I think people like that dont have the same point of interest in the game...they dont wanna play a nice game they want to win...however.

And then it really pisses me off..on the other hand i play many times 2vs2vs2 on a small map with 2 mins boot and 25% banking boottimes because then the cames keeps flowing..if people are finished after 2 mins and wait 4 more then in team games there are more and more people absent if the move is finished...

Booting etiquette: 12/17/2011 01:37:12

Level 49
When I started, I booted like hell. I used to join 5-10 games, mostly "welcome newbies" (4 player FFAs), and check everytime if someone was over the limit even before I took my first turn. Even if it were only 1-2 hours, I booted the player (if I saw an advantage in it^^).
Then I joined more and more games and because I hadn't figured out how to change the amount of games warlight shows me on the "my games" tab I still saw only 10 games - out of the 18-20 I really was in. Yep, I missed those little page counter right at the bottom.
Of course, I got booted (those 2 times). By the time I noticed what was going on, I saw like five or six games where people had been waiting for me to make a move for almost a week. This was when I realized how much of a noob (and a dick) I had been...

So now I rather wait a little more, nudge & PM people, post something in the game chat, check on their profile if and how long they're inactive(!!!) plus their boot rate - and in team games I try to ask the teammate if he knows the other player, what's going on etc.
My personal threshold is about a day over the "vote to boot" in multi-day. If nothing happens, noone says anything, I boot away. That said, only if remember that there's a game because I have warlight show me only active games mostly.

Other story with those people who have both more than a few games completed and a ridiculous boot rate, though. Those can be booted right away IMO because they don't seem to get it.

tl,dr: With new players there can be a lot of reasons why they don't move; I try to contact them. I try to contact most people before I boot, actually...
Can't say much about RT, I don't play it much.
Booting etiquette: 12/17/2011 02:51:02

Level 55
so bill, is warlight totes srsly or not? you cant have it both ways.

you just sound impatient, warlighting or otherwise. like people who get antsy if they have to wait in line longer than 20 seconds, or who get really agitated at traffic jams and airport delays. find something else to do in between moves.
Booting etiquette: 12/17/2011 04:58:24

Level 31
I think that making a personal "zero tolerance policy", as it were, is a bit silly. For MD games, if it is a fun, competitive game, I will never boot. However, some people really hate to lose, and it seems they would prefer to be booted. If I am steamrollering an opponent, and they still haven't surrendered or made a move within 3 days, I will boot. Otherwise, I'd still have active games where I had been waiting for weeks. Does anyone else get this happening to them?

For RT games, I generally stick to the autogame template, which has autoboot built-in. I can wait 10 minutes, things happen. Maybe their connection failed, it has happened to all of us. Maybe they had to go to the bathroom, or maybe the SWAT team has just burst into their home. Just let the autoboot do it's thing..
Booting etiquette: 12/17/2011 08:18:08

Level 44
4 days 12 hours, 3 day DB
16 days 6 hours, 3 day DB
88 days 11 hours, 30 day DB 2 day VTB
72 days 2 hours, 3 day DB
51 days 7 hours, 3 day DB
322 days 8 hours, 3 day DB

Crafty35a Used to be my 2v2 partner, and is only about 10 days away from the auto-suspension mark..

many of the players in those games are the old guard and some of the new vets if I recall properly \*not gonna reload them to look*, and IMHO, the kind of people worth playing with..
Booting etiquette: 12/20/2011 01:01:34

Level 57
I boot when you have the chance when the time limit is direct boot in 2 or more days. If Eisenhauer had waited for Hitler to wake up and give orders on D-day, he would have been shot. Because it is a game, if someone is running long I will nudge before the boot time (if nobody else did). On shorter time frames, I will look at the situation and the player. If they have a history of being booted, good-bye to the delay. If no history, I will be patient. Really, how hard is it to log on and say they have something else that needs to be done and ask for some more time(assuming vacation is not active) or when you move and know you will be gone for a weekend to say when you expect to be able to move again. I would never boot someone that requested more time if they move within that time (that is where there is a difference between war and the game).
Booting etiquette: 1/3/2012 23:59:02

Level 51
Generally I don't boot in MD games. Maybe if someone is annoying.

But in RT games I usually boot ppl after timeout.
It's just like in chess u know...
**If u don't like crazy games, don't join crazy games.** I always place a warning in the game title like "3 min direct, 5 min auto" or something like this.

If the guy asks for a few secs, I give it but i.e. if someone is unable to make the very first move within time control, then I feel no sorry.
Yes, it ruins team games I know. That's why sometimes I prefer to say
boot time

in the main chat. But other times I'm not so patient. It depends. :)

If I'm booted from a game it's okay. It's my fault. Next time I'll be more focused.

VTE? Only before the first move.
Booting etiquette: 1/4/2012 12:02:56

Level 5
Read the settings. There is a certain time before people can vote to boot you. There is a certain time before people can boot you personally. And there is a certain time before autoboot. You agree to these settings when you join the game. If you don't agree, do not join the game.

Blacklisting people for booting others is completely ridiculous. If I was into this blacklist thing, I'd probably blacklist the blacklisters in turn. Once again, if you join a game where it's possible people can personally boot you after 5 minutes, don't be surprised or angry when after 5 minutes you do get booted. Especially in real-time games, not everyone has the time to sit around waiting 15 minutes per turn.

Personally? I don't boot the second the timer is at 0, of course, especially not in 2-minute games when it's already in the middle of the game. 5-minute games and the player didn't take their first turn at all makes me boot the player on the 0 mark, but I do warn 30 seconds beforehand that I am going to do so. I boot 1-2 minutes over the mark later on in the game when I realise I just bumped his income down by half or he has surrendered (some people obviously ragequit). If there's no reason for him to leave, and he doesn't seem to be in a very bad position, it's bad manners to boot him. But I would not be surprised or angry when someone else boots him. Read the settings.
Booting etiquette: 1/4/2012 16:49:33

Level 51
The only reason to blacklist someone is if you don't want to play with them again.

Therefore, if you don't want to play with someone who's strict on booting, It makes perfect sense to blacklist them.
Booting etiquette: 1/7/2012 20:04:54

Level 2
ha its kinda funny you mentioned this... if it were up to me I would boot on sight the second anyone on the other team went over, but I usually ask around, or on a team game, ask my teammates what they think about it. As long as my teammate can't say that "I'm being a douche" and "he told me not to" then I don't care, I'm just happy for the win :)
Booting etiquette: 1/7/2012 20:34:48

Level 44
that statement just lowered your w/l stats reliance by about 20%.. and they already suck..
Booting etiquette: 1/7/2012 20:49:36

Level 35
The goal of the game is to have fun. Now i don't see the purpose for booting someone the moment the timer is up. In a team game, for example 3v3, and you boot someone, then obvously it's not 3v2, this is no longer a fair game, but a slaughter. Now, i don't see the point of playing 3v2. If you want to play 3v2, you can create a 3v2 game. Why join a 3v3 game, and yet boot someone to make it 3v2? That's just ludicrious to me. Also in 1v1. when you boot someone, the game is over. You joined the 1v1 game, because you want to play 1v1. If you boot someone, you just ended the game. So i don't see the point.

There are many reasons why people are slow. In multi-day, some games disable "honouring vacation", so if you boot someone on vacation, well, what can the person do about this? Also, not everyone who joins a game checks settings. I mean do you really check the settings in every game you join? Also, warlight is just a game, people have better things to do than take their turn. So what's wrong with waitng for a week for them? If you don't like waiting, you can join another game, or you can do your own thing.

In real-time games, sometimes, people's internet get disconnected (this happened to me many times). Many of those times, people waited for me(because my general boot rate is low). and we continued the game and ended with a excellent game. Whereas if I was booted, then the game is pretty much over. If you wait extra 5 mins, it's not like it will kill you, so what's wrong with waiting? Are you that desperate for a win?

Due the the reasons above, i will personally blacklist anyone who boot the moment the timer is up, because I find that simply unreasonable.
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