It is a thread about clan league C but almost nothing is happening here (few updates, few comments about the games, etc.)....

Edited 8/31/2017 18:14:23

The only good thing for Clan Forums is this discussion... If we have to make a "CL Thoughts + Random comments" thread then it's just stupid.

New Clans have it tough and time isn't kind to them. Measures to make CL reasonably a bit faster would only be fair to new clans.

The thought that it takes 9 months to finish 11 tournaments where each team has to play 6 games is just bizarre to some. Of course clans in the A won't care how long it finishes but care about results but Bish/Cish leagues have a time problem. The long time means your squad has to constantly evolve, This is main challenge. Keep up with the times or drop dead. Don't evolve = You die.

Dropping of clans isn't bad thing. Probably gives a bit more power to the A clans since they suck whoever is good out of the dead clans which in most cases is 1/2 players. But it just speeds up the leagues.

The real league is keeping your clan, Clan League fit on the pitch and as much off the pitch. Developing + Recruiting.

Clans dropping haven't so they fall behind and again die.

Then there are clans like [NL], Poon Squad, FBG and bunch others that don't care about results, have weak scores in all tournaments and still play xD
Maybe you are overthinking it.

Edited 8/31/2017 19:03:51

A two template limit would be a disaster. The idea that it'd make clan league more unpredictable or even is just laughable. Off the top of my head I can think of maybe 5 clans this would benefit. Every other clans performance would drop off quite considerably, and in some cases the clan may struggle to field a lineup at all.

I played for TJC in CL9, and we only had 5 players who could compete in clan league, the rest of the clan had little interest in strategy at all. Two of our players basically retired in clan league, a two template cap would've been the death-knell in our promotion effort (which I'm sure a lot of you would have loved to see :D)

Clans like Turtles, GG, FC(rip), ONE (?), VS and Sninja are all Div A and B clans which have either limited numbers or a small concentration of skilled players. When you look at the qualifiers, the problem is even more pronounced every clan in division C would have struggled with this rule excluding possibly Hydra.

We've already seen a few clans die recently, why expedite the process?

The way I see it, Mike is just bitter about not being able to make the MH roster xD.

Maybe we can go back to 4 then :D

@Mike, not all of us were really very involved in Clan League aside from playing the actual games! D:

Something Benoit said stuck with me a bit. "I did not read all the suggestions for the CL but there are surely ways to talk to people...Anyways. The suggestion was mostly made as a way to somehow improve the parity in the higher divisions. Masters for example would probably do well with their top players (MotD, MoD, Timi and Qb, at least my impression of the best of Masters) playing only 2 tournaments instead of 3, as it would have given the opportunity to other very good masters to step-up and represent their clan as well. I can see though that only 2 tournaments per player could be very hard to do for some clans like 7th Heaven for example, hence why some clans would be against it. I just felt that a minimum of 6 players per clan to play Clan League is really not representative of the real overall strength of a clan, particularly if the clan is relatively big."

This is a very fair point.

My understanding is that the higher tier clans want to force more competition from the clans in question, specifically to avoid being carried by a few players. I think this is a completely legitimate goal. At the same time, some of us are worried that other clans will drop out due to an inability to field enough players to compete. I do wonder if poaching might increase further if more players are given the opportunity to play for strong clans, but then again - people have a tendency to float around anyway.

How about a compromise?

AFAIK most people aren't as concerned about clans like Blitz and other elite clans that might be dying. These clans, as opposed to the small elite ones. Its primarily the weaker clans in lower divisions. So what if, to compete in (for instance) Divisions A and B, the limit is 2-3 tournaments/player (assuming one of these works better for you guys). For divisions lower than that, the maximum is 4.

Yes, its still possible for an alt to help carry a lower tier clan up past where it belongs, but if alts can instead play with their mains in a more challenging setting, I think there is severely reduced risk. Additionally, lower tier clans might be less disadvantaged by poaching from higher tier clans.



I don't expect my idea to be considered for the next Clan League if the format was already decided (I don't actually know lol, crunched for time here). I'm hoping that we can maybe find a way to keep the disparate groups happy. (On the off chance someone thinks I'm suggesting things for my own benefit, I really only volunteered for ONE template this CL. So this change wouldn't have affected me either way).

Edited 8/31/2017 21:44:54

Hysterical it was just my point of view, not higher clan's point of view. Some clans in A and B like some pointed out would have too much a hard time with a max of 2 tourneys per player.

Edited 8/31/2017 22:00:28

BTW CORP would be one of those clans that would actually profit from that change.

The way I see it, Mike is just bitter about not being able to make the MH roster xD.

Lol right, I have never asked to play in CL, I already can't cope with 2 ladder games. I'm really not into MD.

And I don't see why we think which clan would profit or suffer from this as this is not the point IMO, plus all clans would be in the same boat, only some of them would have to adapt which would be only a matter of time.
No the point is how to improve CL, make it more interesting, challenging, and look more like what CL should be and what it should reward : gather 6 of the best WL players and rule the league thanks to them, or grow and train a group of skilled players to compete against other squads ?

@ Plat

The thought that it takes 9 months to finish 11 tournaments where each team has to play 6 games is just bizarre

Not sure if you suggest that 6 games is too much, but if so then I would agree. I suggested to reduce by one the number of clan in each division and add divisions in order to faster the league, which as declined. Instead the idea of force start through a schedule has been opted, but this may imply slow players to get burnt out with too many MD at once if they fail to play faster (which is often not by choice but by way of playing).

About clans dying (Blitz), I'm wondering if the new format of dropping from B means start from 0, which can be humiliating, isn't what killed the clan ? I for one preferred the previous format. I feel more clans would play in CL and more importantly would stick to it, instead of thinking "this season we can drop out and play the next one, we'll only lose 1 season", when previous format kind of forced clan to stick to CL to avoid dropping more than 1 division, so losing more than 1 season.

Just a few thoughts.

Btw it's quite funny how the same thing said by someone in MH, NWO or Hydra results in very different reactions. Anyway nothing new here!

Edited 9/1/2017 00:28:23

It is how the people say things rather than the tag clan of the people saying such things...If you speak to people like they are trash with arrogance, people will usually react accordingly...

Edited 9/1/2017 00:31:24

Alright then I apology to anyone that got offended with my tone. I posted that a bit after i found out you bl'd me you fool ;)

Well deserved. CL would actually be the chance to prove yourself to be as good as you claim to be. Why not try to be on MH roster?

Edited 9/1/2017 00:37:27

LOL I dont claim anything! It's not by guiding some noobs in RT games that I claim anything. Or that I'm better than some random noobs ok I claim that if you want. But you'll never hear me talking about my level. Anyway this is not of public interest.

Well my plan is as follows : 1v1 ladder, then MDL, then another ladder or CL. And tbh, the day I try CL, it won't be in division A. I just played in RCL which only was 3 team games and did well, but in CL I wouldnt risk to let my clan down so would rather gauge my level in B or C first. I would most certainly struggle in B already.

Edited 9/1/2017 00:41:14

CL is just unsustainable the way it is run now. A 9-month commitment for an event that could easily take a day? GTFO. Its not really a shock that so many clans are going to drop immediately after by far the longest CL.

Never seen such a non-statement before, good luck with taking one day 'easily' for a clan league.

Let's say you have Jack the Cocaine Rabbit playing all slots for your clan.
Jack the Cocaine Rabbit plays very fast.
Jack the Cocaine Rabbit has to play 18 slots.
Jack the Cocaine Rabbit has to play 5 games for each slot.
Jack the Cocaine Rabbit has to play about ~10 turns for each game.
Jack the Cocaine Rabbit has to play about 900 turns in one day.

Jack the Cocaine Rabbit has ran out of stamina after 100 turns, sorry

Edit: Jack the Cocaine Rabbit is not on cocaine, it's just a nickname

Edited 9/1/2017 02:12:27

Any increase in roster size/decrease in templates allowed would most certainly accelerate this consolidation of talent. Right now, a great player may not go to an elite clan, because they are not assured of being able to compete in CL for a clan that already has a great roster. Force bigger rosters and you will see more players flock to the best clans.

Especially since an up and coming clan, that is maybe carried by a really good player, will be able to rely on them less, and less likely to climb the ladder.

If you want to reduce poaching, don't force bigger rosters. If you say, only allowed 3 players per clan (this is an extreme example that would be bad), then you'd see talent disperse more.

Edited 9/1/2017 03:23:53

Farrah, that's part of my point that jack the cocaine rabbit is playing that many games. It's one of the many issues in clan league. If the rules were set up a little better, there'd be 5 games per tourney and a limit of 2 tourneys per player. You can't get 10 games done in a day?

Just making fewer games isn't a solve all solution, as we also need to address how long turns take. Hopefully the vacation limit (which should be 10 days per clan league...it's too high where it is) will help out with that. Honestly, I think the 3 day timeframe is too long as well, but that's just me. Guys who milk it can make a game last fucking forever and hold up the whole tourney.

Also need to address one game delaying a second getting started. Hopefully the set schedule will be timed right so that games don't all get clumped together or too spread out.

Edited 9/1/2017 12:12:22

The world would be a much better place if Crisis Core was never released

i cant play 10 games in a day if i am to play them propperly, not even close. also this game is sequential so to say that you could do it that fast is a joke i think. i cant even seeing it be done in 30 days, unless only players that can commit to being online 12+ hours a day is allowed to play

Edited 9/1/2017 12:48:29

lol I'm not suggesting it should be played in a day, only that it could.

You guys want to get hung up on an alleged technicality? Fine. I'll stretch it out to say that CL could easily be played in 2 days. If you tell me you can't play 5 proper games in a day I'll call you a liar right here and now. (Still not saying this SHOULD be done, only that it could).

The heart of my point remains that CL takes wayyyy longer than it should. After CL9, I know I for one def can't commit to another clan league. I'm sure others feel the same way.

Edited 9/1/2017 14:27:37