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Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/10/2017 02:20:45


[FCC] Aura Guardian 
Level 61
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To help get the derailed CL thread back on track, lets try to migrate our poaching discussion here. To continue, let me state my own ideas on poaching directly:

1. Poaching and attempted poaching will happen, its the nature of this game, and it will always be that way.

2. Already established elite clans are not the culprits when it comes to poahing. These clans tend to have no need to poach, since players tend to come to them naturally anyway. This tends to be the way masters, lynx, and turtles operate.

3. The major culprits are clans that are one step behind the top clans, looking to shortcut their route to the top. These clans usually involve highly active leaders whose goals are to get as high as they can, as quickly as they can.

4. Poaching in general, is not much of a problem. Usually an unhappy player will leave a clan. Its rare that another clan prompts them to leave. Most of the time, its the player leaving on their own accord, only to land in another clan later on.

5. The community makes too much of a deal on poaching, and tends to blame elite clans for it, even though they tend not to be the ones doing the poaching. This is due to the natural "us against them" mantra, which is hardwired into the human psyche.

Hopefully this thread will allow us to get the clan league thread back on topic.
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/10/2017 02:56:03


AWESOMEGUY 
Level 63
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Wrong thread

Edited 6/10/2017 02:56:17
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/10/2017 09:12:47


Master Farah♦ 
Level 59
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From the other thread:
But it's difficult and a bit frustrating to see their recent recruits despite their already unreachable level, and scary to think that a former MH, Farah, crossed the line (how could we blame him, but that's not the point, and even if he was not poached) and that others have been approached.
@Mike: Stop dragging me into this. You know I left MH for the cheating bs and you know Masters never approached me. Claiming i 'crossed the line' is totally out of context and I'm not the example you want to make. There's a thread named 'Council's announcement' on your clan forums, I suggest you give it a good read.
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/10/2017 12:04:15

linberson 
Level 60
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This is great entertainment!

@Great Expanse: Please take this as a prime example on how to provide entertainment. I really hope Hydra will be more entertaining in CL 10 group Q. ;)

On a less serious note, how come nobody has accused GG for poaching yet? Rikku, Xeno, Onoma, you cant all be still asleep?
Please perform your judicial duties!

@Mike: here are some more informative and entertaining threads:
  • https://www.warlight.net/Forum/152349-cheating-1v1-ladder?Offset=0
  • https://www.warlight.net/Forum/153259-mhunters-approves-ladder-cheating


EDIT:

My favourite quote from the second thread:



Edited 6/10/2017 12:12:52
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/10/2017 12:16:34


Norman 
Level 57
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@Nils Boner:
I have posted the second thread a couple of times in our clan forums, when I thought that we should get a good laugh again.

However nothing in comparison to this one:
https://www.warlight.net/Forum/168387-call-exclude-mhunters-community-events
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/10/2017 12:25:53

linberson 
Level 60
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Ah, right. I almost forgot that MH cheated in CL as well. Thx for the reminder!
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/10/2017 14:21:18

Mike
Level 59
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@Farah and Rouxburg (in CL10 improvements), I don't understand your posts. If you read my post, you will notice that I did say Farah was not poached or approached, and that I couldn't blame him for his decision.

I mentionned Farah's name only to explain why the general subject of losing clanmates, and the specific subject of poaching even if not related to Farah here, is affecting me (and clanmates, and lots of other clans and their members), that's all.

Farah I'm surprised you left MH only for this, after knowing what I know from your personality (= one of the kindest person on WL). By "only", I mean without giving a 2nd chance to someone who did a mistake. Are you for death penalty ? I like the idea that people can change and deserve second chance, provided they still have been punished. AI has been bullied, humiliated, almost left WL at that time. I think he paid for his mistake. MH showed class to offer him a second chance and rehabilitation. AI since proved that he does belong to WL top tier players, cleaned his name and gained respect from the community, and above all is an amazingly nice person. MH can be proud with the decision they took as AI did understand the mistake and has since been absolutely irreproachable.

As proven by Masters trying to reach him quite recently so MH doesnt seem to be the only ones to have forgiven him.
https://www.warlight.net/MultiPlayer?GameID=13327807

That's why for me, when you left Farah, I couldn't prevent myself from remembering that you had been hoping to join Masters someday for long, as I noticed it during one of my first WGLs ; Masters, at the same time, just had failed to win CL9, so maybe they became more open to new talents then ever before. Ofc this is all speculation, but all that to say that I felt leaving a clan only for this was harsh, difficult to buy, and if not genuine then not very nice, as using this excuse in public may make AI's WL life tougher to handle, one for MH loss of you, two for reminding the facts. Anyway, my memories of you also include not only a genius but a genuine person, so I'm probably wrong here.

@Linberson, ok now this is going way out of topic. We're falling into very low attacks AGAIN against AI despite already covered, or is just aimed at MH, one of the usual targets ?
To answer you on the quote, I'll reiterate what I was trying to explain back in the time : since a high rank on a ladder can be achieved mostly with a strong run, I am not schocked that a player uses a fresh account to start that run, instead of waiting 5 months to start a clean run. So when I said having 2 accounts at the same time in the ladder is not cheating, that's of course stupid, and a mistake from me :-). I just didnt realise when I was writing this, that the original account could and thus should have left the ladder during the run with the 2nd account, and this was indeed not done by AI. But why, was it to cheat, or because he forgot to deactivate the 1st ladder account, or because he didnt know the rule, I dont know. And tbh I dont care, this subject has already been covered, as I didnt care before, because I've always been pro "second chance" to people.

Now could we please move on and stick to the subject, or do we have to go through those all over again and ruin threads after threads to bully usual targets ?

Edited 6/10/2017 14:28:59
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/10/2017 14:59:59


master of desaster 
Level 64
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Mike you're making a fool out of yourself by continuing this. The game you posted shows QB asking AI to join masters. He didn't know AI cheated cause he wasn't very active back then and when he suggested AI every other master declined the request. Why don't you leave farah out of this if you are writing walls of text about poaching while you even realize yourself he didn't get poached. Also, if you'd read what farah said, you might realize that not AIs actions alone turned him away from MH but rather how the situation got handled. But what i say is irrelevant anyways, cause it comes from the usual elitist
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/10/2017 16:03:18


Quicksilver
Level 59
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Grabs popcorn
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/10/2017 16:45:52


[FCC] Aura Guardian 
Level 61
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Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/10/2017 16:51:23


Rikku 
Level 61
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Grabs popcorn and changes quicksilver profile picture
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/11/2017 15:27:01


Master Farah♦ 
Level 59
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By "only", I mean without giving a 2nd chance to someone who did a mistake. Are you for death penalty ?
Gave him a second chance. Then he continued doing what he did. Death penalty is absurd.
AI has been bullied, humiliated, almost left WL at that time. I think he paid for his mistake.
Same. If you had mentioned literally anybody else in the context of poaching, AI wouldn't ever have to be mentioned.
That's why for me, when you left Farah, I couldn't prevent myself from remembering that you had been hoping to join Masters someday for long, as I noticed it during one of my first WGLs ; Masters, at the same time, just had failed to win CL9, so maybe they became more open to new talents then ever before. Ofc this is all speculation
Speculation at its finest indeed, as I played in CL9 for Masters.
I felt leaving a clan only for this was harsh, difficult to buy, and if not genuine then not very nice, as using this excuse in public may make AI's WL life tougher to handle
1) I left MH over the cheating stuff and how it got handled. Not because of some long-term plan to join Masters or whatever.
2) Cheating and stalling makes your "WL life" tougher, not me.
We're falling into very low attacks AGAIN against AI despite already covered, or is just aimed at MH, one of the usual targets ?
Yes, MH is definitely the scapegoat of the whole community. You can't influence that in any way.

Let's stop making stuff up; if you want to continue this, just PM me.
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/11/2017 16:06:17


Norman 
Level 57
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Yes, MH is definitely the scapegoat of the whole community. You can't influence that in any way.

All the honorable non elitist clans are looking upon us to kick your butt. We are there to give those clans a voice. The problem with the term elite is that it implies that there is a huge mass of none elite players and only a very few can be elite. M'Hunters represents the 99% while you represent the 1%. You are playing WarLight in your climated office and have completely lost touch with wat the real 99% player base wants. Being a division A clan, M'Hunters can vote on the templates, so your power crumbles. At first it's about time to replace the elitist Europe template with RoR full distribution. Secondly, WarLight has a great diplo community which doesn't get represented appropriately with the current clan league templates. Here I'm waiting for suggestions from my diplo clan friends on how to resolve this issue.

Edited 6/11/2017 16:07:16
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/11/2017 16:32:21


master of desaster 
Level 64
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Norman i already explained to you on the other thread how the template get decided. If you are as motivated reading answers on questions you asked as bringing your clan forward, yor clan will not be able to represent the 99% of the small guys. Also, if you'd put any effort in the clan business beside making smart speeches on the forum, you might remember that MH had already a vote this season on templates just like any other clan in division B as well.
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/11/2017 16:43:45

Kaerox
Level 59
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Btw if anyone wanna get poached here, don't hesitate to send me a mail !
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/11/2017 16:45:46


Quicksilver
Level 59
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Wait what?

Did I really read that right ...

Norman wants Clan League to have diplo?

O_o

Munches popcorn

Edited 6/11/2017 16:46:09
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/11/2017 17:04:01

Kezzo
Level 60
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Potatoe

Edited 6/11/2017 18:30:13
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/11/2017 18:34:17


Platinum
Level 59
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I believe clans in A division may strategically vote out EU because Masters + Lynx appear to be on such a higher level of skill ahead of the rest with possible exception to ONE! That clans will see EU as nearly 2 guaranteed losses and will find it hard to break even 3-3.

Although Norman doesn't play Clan League he feels the need to form Clan League into a playground for him. Not enough of a majority wants RoR full distribution. If this was the case , It would've made the vote and got voted accordingly. https://www.warlight.net/Clans/?ID=141 I don't see a M'Hunters diplomacy description here so I wonder if Norman is in the right clan if he seems so passionate to globalise Diplomacy templates in Clan League. Are you Norman?
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/11/2017 19:22:43


Norman 
Level 57
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I don't see a M'Hunters diplomacy description here so I wonder if Norman is in the right clan if he seems so passionate to globalise Diplomacy templates in Clan League. Are you Norman?

Meh, I just wanted to change the topic, didn't like how this discussion was turning. Farah has always been an awesome clan member and I still enjoy having him on Skype. Mike is also an awesome guy, he just isn't the type of guy who sees the colors between black and white. It's kinda like the old Relite thingy where you had an argument with one and then 10 guys showed up bashing you. The problem is however that we don't want M'Hunters to be the new Relite (nowadays 'gg') but a clan which can take a joke. I find it sad that Nils Boner joined gg, him giggling while reading those posted anti M'Hunters threads would make him a perfect fit into our clan.

As for Europe 3v3, I believe that we have the players to beat Masters however even if not, we want the clan league to be fun for everyone, so we don't vote 'strategically'. Those tricks seem nonsense anyways.

Although Norman doesn't play Clan League he feels the need to form Clan League into a playground for him.
Interestingly the inside view of my clan is that I'm doing quite a valuable job regarding the clan league. And no, with guys like Mike, M'Hunters isn't full off ass-kissers.
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/11/2017 19:49:55


Platinum
Level 59
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It's always healthy for discussions to take place and bring attention to issues you think are important. What isn't healthy is claiming you are representing the 99% and being able to vote to crumble the power of the A clans. When in actual reality , You've been able to vote since being a B clan.

Essentially speaking, The league is run voluntarily mostly by two people. They've spent countless hours running this season. Listening/Moderating countless issues that needs the approval of everyone involved and the community at large. I'm also pretty sure a CLOT requires money to keep running. So when you claim M'Hunters aren't "ass-kissers" when yourself doesn't even have a understanding on how the voting works correctly doesn't really give the impression to the neutral you are doing as much a "valuable job" as you think you are.

Edited 6/11/2017 19:51:20
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/11/2017 19:54:33


Cata Cauda
Level 58
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Steals popcorn from Quicksilver and Rikku
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/11/2017 20:17:35


Norman 
Level 57
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Dude I made a joke, plain and simple. We ain't gona vote for for a RoR full distribution and we ain't gona vote for diplo settings. And imo quite obviously I was stating that my clanmates weren't kissing "my" ass.

Edit: As for whether my job is valuable or not, the only thing I can say is that we promoted straight from the bottom to division A and for whatever reason, may it be justified or unjustiied, my clanmates respect the work I'm doing regarding the clan league.

Edited 6/11/2017 20:32:16
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/11/2017 20:55:06


Platinum
Level 59
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Lets go for Africa 3v3 so ? Instead of RoR full distribution and EU? ;)

Edited 6/11/2017 20:58:00
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/12/2017 00:09:12


Zephyrum 
Level 60
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M'Hunters represents the 99% while you represent the 1%. You are playing WarLight in your climated office and have completely lost touch with wat the real 99% player base wants.


laughs in 99ish

Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/12/2017 01:07:08


Bonsai 
Level 60
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I play for a clan in Div. A and work in a school that doesn't have air conditioning. I'm having an identity crisis.
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/12/2017 01:46:56


ps 
Level 60
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yay clan drama!
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/12/2017 02:06:14


Master Turtle 
Level 61
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Turtles started at the bottom and now they are at the top. Every clan did. Some have just stayed at or towards the top since the league didn't used to be so large....
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/12/2017 02:33:44


TeamGuns 
Level 59
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Yea, it's not like M'H is any special in regards of climbing to the top, platinum's 101st roster was in C with M'H a few leagues ago if I recall correctly, and it moved to B, then A...

All "elite clans" weren't elite at some point
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/12/2017 07:01:14


Norman 
Level 57
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Afraid you remember wrong. M'Hunters went straight from D2 to A, and since the D divisions were introduced the season we joined the league, you can't find another clan with 3 promotions in a row. This is just as trivial as Turtle stating that other division A clans have promoted to A.
Warlight Poaching Discussion: 6/12/2017 07:16:30


wakanarai 
Level 58
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just a small history from clans that i remember are now high up and started low in the list:
Blitz: S4 group C, S5 group C, S6 group B, S7 group A, S8 group B, S9 group A
Lynx: S5 group C, S6 group B, S7 group A, S8 group A, S9 group A
Turtles: S5 group C, S6 group C, S7 group B, S8 group A, S9 group A

As you can see here this is the list of the seasons those clans started competing in Clan League (i know the lynx might have been an issue with management back then but still they started back then as the elite clan of 101st like we still know how it is.

All these clans either went to A with 1 season staying in C because of reasons or did it the same as you did just now but only 1 season faster to get into A but it's still about the same in difficulty to get into there right now.

In the S6 for group B you actually had Blitz predicted to come in 3rd or 4th even after Masters for sure and maybe VIW or so if i remember correctly but we managed to defeat masters back then which were kind of plagued by members going inactive. After that point they started going on a terror and are what they are right now, the clan to beat.

For turtles in S5 they were pretty close to blitz when it came to promoting and it was a battle with SNinja back then as well who just joined CL in that season if i remember correctly, 4 clans which are still active in the current season with 3 of them being in division A and 1 of them being in division B on 5th place which should say how competitive that group was in that season as well.

I have to add that CL S5 had also the Brazilian clan in division C and was doing pretty good as well, they managed to stay in division B for a season or so as well before they dropped out due to inactivity i believe.

Edited 6/12/2017 07:19:05
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