As many of you know an American was recently imprisoned and put in a coma while in North Korean custody which ultimately lead to his death. This tragedy and the everyday suffering of North Koreans could have been avoided.

Every time the US tries to do some good in the world the US public loses its nerve and kicks the can down the road until it takes more and more blood and more treasure to fix.

The US pulled out of the Russian Civil war (between democratic socialists Whites and totalitarian communists Reds) because the US lost 279 men and its will to fight. If we had continued to support the Whites (democratic socialists) then there is no USSR. No WW2. No Cold War. Stalin's and Mao's purges never kill millions and North Korea never exists.

When Chiang Kai-shek was about to finish off the Communists, President Truman cut monetary support for the Chinese Nationalists. The Communists regrouped, won China, and "liberated" North Korea 1 month after the end of the civil war.

Or if the US had nuked Chinese military bases during the Korean war. China would have pulled out and the war would be won.

Refusing to fight terrorists and brutal dictators is not a winning strategy.

I am a neocon, not because I want big wars with lots of US casualties but because I don't. I believe in low casualty preemptive wars that kill brutal dictators before they are able take power and draft armies.

The Cold War is a prime example. The earth was nearly nuked to oblivioun several times because the Western public wouldn't invest more than 300 casualties into the Russian Civil War. Pathetic.

Edited 6/21/2017 00:22:24

Every time the US tries to do some good in the world

I pity you. No government tries to do good, they all do what is best for themselves. War isn't all bad, but states never go to war for moral grounds, to "save folk", not since the 1930s, anyway. Maybe Britain should've retook America before the bulk genocide of several indigenous folks?

between democratic socialists Whites and totalitarian communists Reds

Actually there're way more factions than that but they basically upheld anyone who were against what became the biggest part - the Red. The foreign interventionists pulled out, mostly since it was an unwinnable war, socialist uprisings were dangerously close in their own homelands, and that it was not worth the resources and war slavery (every country had draft by this time) to kill off the Red.

At the same time, you have the invasion of Dominica, to harvest resources, some hundreds were killed there, and for what?

America has no magic "moral powder" that other countries don't, and no countries grow them.

Uphold a guy who literally boiled communists and was a nationalist-militarist? KMT sucks, yo

Refusing to fight terrorists and brutal dictators is not a winning strategy.

Hmm, yet that's how a country of 500 million got freedom from arguably the worst offender in history. Whereas "fighting terrorists and brutal dictators" only seeks to prolong wars so that the military-sellers get more and more money.

Edited 6/21/2017 00:55:06

None of this makes you a neocon. You are confused.

But no, Afganestan and crap, let's try to kill as many Russians as we can through heroin trade and start a new cold war since ultraconservism.

Neoconservatism was founded by Social Democrats, Trotskyists and other cretins, it's the position of folk who see their fellow man as scum that cannot think for themselves. And just general Russia haters.

And talking about Wilson, his entry into world war one was definitely for the worse, it prevented any sort of good peace by delivering one side an overwhelming advantage. With no US, the Hundred Day's offensive isn't doable, and eventually the two sides will have to give in.

^

Neolibs and neocons are both pro-welfare state pro-mob rule pro-degeneracy. The difference between neocons and neolibs, aside from some minor nuances that have no real significance (gay marriage, abortion 3% tax rate difference, etc.) is their appeal to different demographics. In most American elections a globalist will win, it matters very little if they're red or blue. The reality of the Washington oligarchy is: most politicians are funded by the same banks and corporations and support the same globalist policies.

No government tries to do good, they all do what is best for themselves.

In the case of the United States, what is best for America is best for the world. When the American economy crashed in 2008 so did the rest of the world. When Pax Americana is weakened rogue states gain power and pose a danger to the entire world. It is in the entire world's interest for America's interests to be advanced if only it means their economies don't crash and ISIS doesn't invade Italy.

The foreign interventionists pulled out, mostly since it was an unwinnable war...

False. The war was only unwinnable in the sense that the West didn't even want to fight. After the West pulled out their troops and funding the Soviets suffered a horrific defeat in the Polish-Soviet War.

On 20 June 1919, Denikin issued his famous "Moscow directive", ordering all AFSR units to get ready for a decisive offensive to take Moscow and seize the coming Ukrainian harvests. Only a swift alliance with the Ukrainian Anarchists saved the Reds from total collapse.

At the same time, you have the invasion of Dominica, to harvest resources, some hundreds were killed there, and for what?

You are quoting a fake invasion. There are two invasions of Dominica. One by the British during the Seven Years war against France and one failed "Operation Red Dog" in 1981 which was planned by elements of the KKK and was thwarted by the US federal agents.

America has no magic "moral powder" that other countries don't, and no countries grow them.

I never said that America is any more moral than any other country. But it is in the self interest of other countries to submit to Pax Americana to avoid a new cold war and potentially nuclear war.

KMT sucks, yo.

There is no moral equivalency between the KMT and Mao. Taiwan is a much better place to live than China and has been for decades. Taiwan doesn't run people over with tanks. The KMT was diplomatically controllable. Mao was unstable.

... a country of 500 million got freedom from arguably the worst offender in history. Whereas "fighting terrorists and brutal dictators" only seeks to prolong wars so that the military-sellers get more and more money.

Almost all human advancement is made through military science. The internet was invented by the military. The space race would have been impossible without the V2 rockets. Clean, sustainable nuclear power would never had been developed if it couldn't be weaponized in the form of Atom bombs. The more a nation spends on its weapons the more technologically advanced it becomes. Humans rarely invent things that can't be weaponized. It isn't in our nature.

Edited 6/21/2017 04:07:12

Totally wrong my friend. Since when were weaving, the book press, Three field farming, any animal breeding besides horsebreeding,... (i could write pages here,btl). That argument cannot be used because you can weaponize almost everything. Must inventors thou had not in mind thou that their stuff could be used to kill people.

LOL this thread in a nutshell



The truth is, the only thing USA's regime has cared for for the past 50+ years is maximizing the profits of the capitalists that have been buying their politicians. You start war after war in an endless cycle based on lies so the filthy capitalists behind your military production can make more money. It's beyond hypocricy to see you speak about this one possibly innocent guy who was harmed in North Korea. How many civillians do you kill every year all over the world with your lawless drone strikes?
Should your country be nuked for its countless war crimes?

In the case of the United States, what is best for America is best for the world.

Typically, it's the opposite. What's best for America is several wars elsewhere, and what's bad for America means generalised growth all across the globe. Hell, if anything, the 2008 crash was a golden age for middle eastern peace compared to the rest of the century so far.

When the American economy crashed in 2008 so did the rest of the world.

Any crash will affect the entire world. Welcome to the 2000s. See how Greece going to shit engaged the entire EU into disarray?[/quote]

When Pax Americana is weakened rogue states gain power and pose a danger to the entire world.

Rogue states gain power when America is at their best. 2008 crisis ends? Syrian civil war, ISIS, ect.
If anything, the real rogue state is America.

It is in the entire world's interest for America's interests to be advanced if only it means their economies don't crash and ISIS doesn't invade Italy.

I'd see more likeliness in Haiti invading the USA than ISIS annexing Italy.

^^ Are you saying this man http://www.andralemarie.com/images/114955/Young%20Barack%20Obama.jpeg is not a Communist?

Of course he isn't

But what about this man http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2013/11/Dwight_D_Eisenhower-AB.jpeg?

Definitely not

Here is one you can't deny. http://www.history.com/s3static/video-thumbnails/AETN-History_VMS/21/145/History_FDR_and_TVA_rev_SF_HD_1104x622-16x9.jpg

He wasn't a Communist

I'd see more likeliness in Haiti invading the USA than ISIS annexing Italy.

ISIS already is invading Italy! What do you think the migrant crisis is?

You start war after war in an endless cycle based on lies so the filthy capitalists behind your military production can make more money.

And to advance human scientific horizons. You can't deny that wars push humans into the future.

See how Greece going to shit engaged the entire EU into disarray?

The economies of Greece, Spain, and China first tanked during the 2008 crisis. Their current problems is a direct cause of the American collapse. The failure of Spain and Greece just proves my point that destroying America will ruin the economies of the entire world.

2008 crisis ends? Syrian civil war, ISIS, ect.

As I have already proved, the 2008 crisis is still ongoing in most parts of the world and the US has not recovered to 2006 levels. The Great Recession and an isolationism streak in the American public is the direct cause of the Syrian civil war, ISIS, ect.

If anything, the real rogue state is America.

By definition, the world's only superpower is a rogue state. This is a fact and it will never change. America has the best human rights record for any superpower since Alexander the Great ended the Persian Empire.

Edited 6/21/2017 18:57:21

Notice I named them in order of most Communist.

I love it how Cruelest didnt respond to Kretoma, because he knows he is right.

Should your country be nuked for its countless war crimes?

LMAO, yes they should!

Edited 6/21/2017 19:43:57

Neolibs and neocons are both pro-welfare state pro-mob rule pro-degeneracy.

I don't agree with your premise, but what you're saying about two sides of the same coin is mostly entirely true.

Although Neoliberals and Neoconservatives aren't at all diametrically opposed.

Neoconservatism is a foreign policy based on spreading your own ideology through war, and it's a term only used in America.

Neoliberalism is an economic policy based on deregulation, somewhat progressive tax rates (usually top bracket is 40%), service-based economies, some privatisation, yet by-and-large retaining the welfare state. It's a global policy

Because of this, some people adopt both policies, like Reagan or Blair. it transcends the political spectrum absolutely- leftists and rightists have both been infected since Reagan+Thatcher, and Clinton+Blair. Thankfully Sanders/Trump/Corbyn/Farage are trying to put an end to it, but Trump in particular looks to be fickle af, sadly.