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Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 20:13:45


Dexterous Strategist
Level 27
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Religious symbols on passports and flags are not secular. In the Netherlands, every Dutch citizen is obliged according to the law to carry a passport. The Netherlands is called a secular country, but the Dutch passport has a cross on it, which is anti-secular and Dutch people are forced to pay taxes to religious programmes which come on TV. A passport with a cross on it - which is a religious symbol - is not a neutral passport, so not every citizen will feel welcome by seeing a cross on their passport. As for paying taxes to religious programmes, it's the same story, it's absolutely not neutral.

What do you think about this?
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 20:27:39


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Secularism is a spectrum, not a black-and-white as many folk see it. However Holland is much more secular than other countries likely. Also national symbols are harmless. Russia and Belarus and other backwards countries here get much more iffier than a parrot holding the Orthodox ball.

BTW which religious programmes are you talking about?
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 20:31:07

#1 Cata Cauda Fan!
Level 52
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"every Dutch citizen is obliged according to the law to carry a passport."

Whenever one leaves the house? :o
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 20:34:02


Dexterous Strategist
Level 27
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Whenever one leaves the house? :o

Either a passport or an identity card inside the Netherlands, but if someone goes outside the Netherlands, then he's obliged - according to the law - to carry a Dutch passport.
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 21:14:15


Eklipse
Level 57
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Why do you even care? It's a cross, on a passport. It's not going to kill you.

If simply seeing a cross makes you "feel unwelcome" than you should go back home and hide under your bed where you don't have to encounter things you don't like.
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 21:31:00


Dexterous Strategist
Level 27
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My Dutch passport doesn't have a cross on it, I removed the cross a few years ago on my passport with my pen. I just want a neutral passport, that's it.
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 21:31:43


Dexterous Strategist
Level 27
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Also, what if you would have a passport with a moon and a star? I don't think you would be happy with that.
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 21:42:58


Emperor Justinian
Level 48
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^I think that would be fine, in Pakistan.
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 21:47:30


Dexterous Strategist
Level 27
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I don't want a passport with a moon and a star nor do I want a passport with a cross. I just want a neutral passport.
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 21:53:11


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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Passports are inherently national, they are not neutral. They uphold the national culture.
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 21:55:00


Dexterous Strategist
Level 27
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The majority of the Dutch population is irreligious.
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 22:05:50


Emperor Justinian
Level 48
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Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 22:24:50


Mictlantecuhtli
Level 57
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The Netherlands has historically been a Christian country, similar to how Saudi Arabia has been a historically Muslim country and Japan has been a historically Shinto/Buddhist country. Trying to change the culture of a Nation too quickly will only leave resentment among the inhabitants of said Nation.
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 22:35:01


OxTheAutist 
Level 58
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who exactly is being harmed?

you're taking this offense. it's not being given.

grow a pair.
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 22:37:58


Leibstandarte (Vengeance)
Level 45
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Would you look at that ladies and gentleman, a cuck in his habitat. While it may seem harmless and dumb it can multiply at incredible rates and will outnumber you if you let him do his own thing.
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 22:43:38


Bla 
Level 18
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I think countries should be at least secular, ideally atheist. It makes no sense at all for people to fund superstition or grant it any special legal status, whether it's islam, christianity or anything else. If people want to believe it, it should be a private matter, and nobody should be granted special priviliges for it. In essence, religious ideas are like any other ideas, and the same kind of criticism should be expected for them as for any other ideas. Religious schools should be abolished, as religion stands in opposition to education, which fundamentally deals with the real world.

In the future I hope humanity moves past all religion, and we will look back at it all like we look back at Odin, Thor, Zeus and Jupiter today.
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 22:50:55


Dexterous Strategist
Level 27
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Some people don't understand the concept of secularism. A passport is given from the government to the citizens. A secular government wouldn't represent any religion in any way, shape or form, so that means that flags, passports and rules don't represent a religion in a secular state.
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 22:53:42


Eklipse
Level 57
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Yeah, we should make sure all schools are run by the state so we can push national propaganda down people's throats easier.

Or we could just not be tyrants and respect people's right to believe and organize. If religious schools meet teaching standards they should be left open. We aren't going to tear down all public semblance of religion because some athiest bigot wants to bring back the good old Stalin days.

Edited 6/30/2017 22:54:28
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 23:15:16


OxTheAutist 
Level 58
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I'm all for secularism. I think that the French model on religion is actually pretty ideal. Most people on this thread probably support countries being secular too.

the issue most people have with OP is that he's such a little bitch.
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 23:22:46


Жұқтыру
Level 55
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In the future I hope humanity moves past all religion


including the flying spaghetti monster?
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 23:26:35


Bla 
Level 18
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LOL Eklipse state schools and national propaganda what
In Denmark >80% of people go to public state-run schools, including me. They were generally fine and certainly not 'national propaganda'. Just because you get rid of religious lies it doesn't imply you lie to them about your nation.
If religious schools meet teaching standards, the standards are dubious if the religion is considered a part of the teaching. And indoctrinating children into superstitions, telling them to believe absurdities or face torture in hell, is not a right, it's child abuse.

including the flying spaghetti monster?

I find the FSM to be a nice retaliation/joke on religion. When religions are no longer taken seriously, the FSM would've accomplished its mission. But in the end I think FSM isn't so important. No one seriously believes in it anyway.

Edited 6/30/2017 23:30:47
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 23:26:40


Dexterous Strategist
Level 27
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Get skranked, Ox.
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 23:39:39


[Wolf] Relmcheatham
Level 56
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There is a cross on the passport... I assure you there are more things troubling the Dutch than getting triggered from a Christian symbol.
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 23:57:40


Eklipse
Level 57
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is not a right, it's child abuse.

Wow. So parents passing on beliefs to their children is child abuse. But forcibly stripping away their beliefs isn't?

Taking away something that brings meaning and purpose to people's lives is the true abuse.

And I don't care how highly you think of your education system, every school has some form of propaganda. Anything run by the state will by nature be biased towards the state. I'm not advocating we get rid of state run schools, but to act like what they teach is 100% objective is laughable.

or face torture in hell

Typical that you single out Christianity first and foremost. What about Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and so forth? Are they not allowed to give their kids religious teachings either?

You are a tyrant. You talk about "Rights" and people being "Abused" but you advocate for violation of the most basic rights.

Edited 6/30/2017 23:58:26
Religious Symbols: 6/30/2017 23:59:54


OnlyThePie
Level 53
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so that means that flags

O shit-

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjM-6bz4ubUAhXLTCYKHQbBBgQQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFlag_of_England&psig=AFQjCNEjcXSxrMq2Kx5wadWf-VKR6yFefA&ust=1498953454199074

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiO8tv64ubUAhXMJCYKHThEDewQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFlag_of_Denmark&psig=AFQjCNGinRAZXBAbZfo81vmOaLy7SX_gyA&ust=1498953469968856

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwiGzbmB4-bUAhWK4CYKHZqeC_sQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFlag_of_Sweden&psig=AFQjCNGK_imZFZFCPkDOBWJGGGRJ0EV7fw&ust=1498953484419300'

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjGmJmW4-bUAhUCbiYKHdFGCG8QjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFlag_of_Turkey&psig=AFQjCNF3xDv9t-EWfVHC_YWdewHLOCcZgA&ust=1498953527772349

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F3%2F32%2FFlag_of_Pakistan.svg%2F255px-Flag_of_Pakistan.svg.png&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFlag_of_Pakistan&docid=i7n5F6sDxFEc_M&tbnid=EQv93ltHHnWo5M%3A&vet=10ahUKEwjt7c2k4-bUAhUFwYMKHVsIBTYQMwg4KAAwAA..i&w=255&h=170&bih=974&biw=1920&q=Pakistan%20flag&ved=0ahUKEwjt7c2k4-bUAhUFwYMKHVsIBTYQMwg4KAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d4/Flag_of_Israel.svg/234px-Flag_of_Israel.svg.png
Religious Symbols: 7/1/2017 00:34:27


Emperor Justinian
Level 48
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^Anti-Semite!
Religious Symbols: 7/1/2017 00:43:58


Bla 
Level 18
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Wow. So parents passing on beliefs to their children is child abuse. But forcibly stripping away their beliefs isn't?

I'm not talking about stripping away their beliefs. Only that indoctrinating children into lies is sick and wrong. If the adults choose to believe in them, I'm not saying they should be stopped if they keep them for themselves.

Taking away something that brings meaning and purpose to people's lives is the true abuse.

Ah, the purpose card. I might find purpose in fooling myself to believe clouds are magic gnomes that grant me wishes if I pray to them. But it doesn't make it true no matter how much purpose I manage to find in fooling myself. Ultimately, religion is harmful to the world, no matter how much meaning some people find in it or not.

And I don't care how highly you think of your education system, every school has some form of propaganda. Anything run by the state will by nature be biased towards the state. I'm not advocating we get rid of state run schools, but to act like what they teach is 100% objective is laughable.

I don't act like they're 100% objective, they're not. Just saying your claim about the national propaganda is totally detached from the reality of millions of people who experience state-run education every day in real life.

Typical that you single out Christianity first and foremost. What about Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and so forth? Are they not allowed to give their kids religious teachings either?

Some teachings are more harmful than others. Therefore I picked a belief that can obviously be terrifying to small children, who don't understand hell isn't real but could feel they're actually being threatened with hellfire. Teaching kids things like that is wrong, and the same goes for stuff like the universe being 6000 years old and other blatant lies like that. One might discuss topics with kids topics such as if deities exist without doing harm, by not threatening them and not pretending to know they exist when there's no evidence for it, but many parts within christianity, islam etc. are rotten, blatantly false and harmful to indoctrinate children in.

You are a tyrant. You talk about "Rights" and people being "Abused" but you advocate for violation of the most basic rights.

For centuries with christianity, islam,..., millions of christians/islamists stood happy while people were stoned, burned, hanged, for witchcraft, refusing to believe in myths, agreeing to have sex while not in a relationship or for teaching things the church felt threatened their volatile worldview. Rights never existed in these religions, rights came to be because society became secularized and grew beyond the primitive mentality that can only judge right from wrong by blindly reciting verses from a book. The irony is you need not look further than the bible to find the very definition of tyranny and violation of rights.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/inj/long.html
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html
It shouldn't be hard to see why anyone who cares about rights cares about freeing the world from such ideas.
Religious Symbols: 7/1/2017 00:47:16


Emperor Justinian
Level 48
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Religious Symbols: 7/1/2017 01:41:20


Castle Bravo
Level 56
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BLA wants people to worship the state at the altar instead of God.
Religious Symbols: 7/1/2017 01:45:20


∞ Western Imperialist ∞
Level 17
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Literally no one cares about anything you say commie scum, muzzie go back to africa.
Posts 1 - 30 of 47   1  2  Next >>   

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