If anyone is interested in joining either of these two ladders, comment here. I will also ask [20] members in our games. [20] members will have first priority if we get too many players/teams.

**[20] 1v1 Best of 3**

- Basic Idea: This will be a challenge-based ladder, in which each match is a best of 3 series on 3 different maps.
- Game 1 --> Neutral template: [Modified Medium Earth](http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?TemplateID=148188)
- Game 2 --> Whoever didn't get 1st Pick in Game 1: You decide the map/settings (luck must be 16%: make a template and then ask a member to adjust the luck).
- Game 3 --> The other player decides the map/settings.
- Initial Ranking: To get started, initial ranking is based on (a) [20]'s current in-clan RR tournament rankings, (b) Fizzer's 1v1 Ladder rankings, (c) Fizzer's 1v1 Seasonal Ladder rankings.
- Only 20 players will be ranked. To join the ladder once there are 20 players: challenge and beat the player ranked number 20.
- For rules on ladder movement or other details, see [[20]'s Facebook page](http://www.facebook.com/pages/Group-of-20/294756290554618).
- This format will be a better indication of who is the best overall 1v1 player than Fizzer's 1v1 ladder: being able to play only one map well doesn't matter as much as being able to adjust to different maps/settings.

**[20] 3v3 Europe**

- [Template](http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?TemplateID=151246)
- Basic Idea: Fizzer doesn't think a 3v3 Europe ladder is feasible. I do. So let's try it.
- Only 20 teams can be ranked.
- Initial Ranking: Once we get 20 teams, I will make a RR. This will determine the initial ranking.
- Ladder movement (after the RR): based on points (win = 1 point, lose = minus 1.5 point)
- To join the ladder once there are 20 teams: challenge and beat the team ranked number 20.


**Notes on 1v1 neutral and 3v3 templates**

- 1v1 --> Fizzer's 1v1 Ladder template is too open to chance/luck and picks matter too much. I modified his map/settings to make skill a more important factor and picks a slightly less important factor.
- 1v1 --> Only blockade cards: Sunzi's Art of War believes in defense (the reinforcement card punishes all out defense); we've all lost a game simply bc the other guy's priority card got priority over ours; order delays: doing it on your own takes more skill.
- 1v1 --> No wastelands, 4 starting spots: sometimes wastelands limit the best spots to be taken so much that each player makes more or less the same picks and the game is almost entirely based on who got what. Not having wastelands avoids this.
- 1v1 --> Adjusted bonuses and 4 starting spots: Open up the board, make it more based on skill rather than fast starts and picks.
- 3v3 --> Without these adjusted bonus values, warlords is often too dependent on pick order luck (ie, whoever's top picks get priority gets the better bonuses). Adjusting the bonus values opens up the board, making pick order luck slightly less of a factor in the outcome of the game (since all but the bonuses worth 7+ will be worth having).
- 3v3/1v1 --> Some have played standard 3v3 Europe (cities or warlords) and/or the 1v1 auto/ladder template more than others and would have an inherent advantage: these settings attempt to level the playing field (since nobody has played more than 3 games with these settings). Thus, initially, overall skill will matter a bit more, experience with the map/settings will matter a bit less.

Also: I only hope to set this up. Once everything is started, if someone wants to manage it (ie, organize the rankings on a daily/weekly basis, create a new web page for this to keep track of games better, etc.), feel free to do that.

If you can't see the templates, two games I just made:

- [3v3 Europe template's game](http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2052008)
- [neutral 1v1 template's game](http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2052018)

try this for the 3v3 europe game instead (open seat requirements were too high, not enough players at this time): http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?GameID=2052077

id be happy to join both ladders, but dont know with whom should i team up for the second... so until i find, sign me up for 1v1

Sign me up for 1v1 also please.
And free for join a team for the 3v3, if someone want me, say me ;)

Answers to questions from [20] members:

- Game count: ideally, a minimum of 1 game at a time; though it is challenge-based, and you all have to initiate the challenges.
- Autoboot: you make your own games, so you set the autoboot; ideally, it'd be set to 3 days; but if you know you have something coming up and can't play, maybe just check the settings, and ask the person to remake the game to fit your schedule.
- Vacation mode: you make the games you play, so you can decide.

Players who will participate so far:

- 1v1: WindowCleaner, Czajnik, Wini, Mablung?, Mentysh,
- 3v3: Czajnik/Wini, Mablung, WindowCleaner (he wants a team that discusses strategy)
- guys who clicked join in the game window i used to discuss this idea but didn't say anything, so maybe they are in: Mohikanin, MontpellierCaCraint, Ret & Rupio, Sweetness69, Laodo, HoneyBadger, Jacas

I just won two matches in the modified 1v1 tourney but now I believe the old map and settings are better than this modified one, here is my 2 cents:

The small bonuses dont make it fair to those players who love to play aggressively. I, for example, usually love to search for enemies then make surprising attacks. But what is the point of marching from Mexico to California then hawaii then Japan just to break 3 income of East China? ( Feel like Hannibal) In this marching process, I have to waste more than 3 troops just to cripple 3 income of my enemy. So with this map, the strategy only limits to expanding carefully and watching for enemy in choke points. And since the map is too small with too many important choke points and block card is too easy to get, the games become really stale and can last very long.

You are also wrong about the reinforcement cards, as I said above, some players love to play aggressively so they can neglect to capture bonuses and go searching for enemies instead, therefore the reinforcement card is very important in this tactic (for example: if I have pakistan and I know my enemy is in scandinavia and west russia, I would rush to Iran then to Georgia to attack west russia. But without the card and with the small bonuses, I wasted 4 troops in the marching process, and wasted my bonus in India without any reward instead of reaching my enemy's border when he already had enough time to gain bonuses. And even if I can break west russia, the lost is still greater than the profit.) That's why this new map only favors those who play carefully and creates a huge disadvantage to those who play riskily ( and this game is called "risk")

And about the order cards, you are right about that it sucks when a game can be determined only by luck. But think you should still use the cards but set cycling orders instead.

i looked at your games. you made your picks on the new settings as if they were the old. in the old settings, central america, scandinavia, india, antarctica (3 bonuses) are 4 of the best bonuses. in the settings of the tournament in question, their 4 territories only get you a 2 bonus, while any bonus with an odd number of territories gives you 50% of the number of territories plus 1 (5 territories = bonus of 3; 7 territories = bonus of 4), which is more efficient. in game 1, you made 3 of your 4 picks in less efficient bonuses. in game 2, 2 of 4. your expansion was slow, and that is expected:

- game 1 starting spots: 17 total territories, 9 total bonus
- game 2: 18 total territories, 10 total bonuses
- if you picked 4 bonuses with 5 territories per: 20 total territories, 12 total bonuses

small differences, but over the course of 5-10 turns, that's 15-30 troops you didn't have. no wonder why you moved so sluggishly.

nonetheless, with the modified settings the better player is going to carry the day more frequently. move/pick order, cards, etc. will not allow the weaker player to win so readily. the weaker player will have to outplay the stronger player. that is hard to do.

I'm in for both, regular 1v1 ladders have too much luck involved.

You can throw me in with windowcleaner if he doesn't mind, team strategy is what makes or breaks 3v3 europe games.

I will play the 1v1 ladder. I am in two of your Modified Earth Tournaments and I for one like the settings. Always fun to try something new instead of the same thing over and over again.

we already got 20 participants. so wait until the ranking stage is complete (an RR) and then challenge player #20. if you win, you're #20.

vapor, talk to window on that. i told the guys i invited to invite whomever they want to team up with. i have my team. so i wont invite anyone else.

the updated 1v1 template, with intro and rules in the personal message: http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer.aspx?TemplateID=148188