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Europe 1600 - About picks: 2/7/2012 19:46:01

[V.I.W] ilpeggiore
Level 58
I'm talking about 3 vs 3, 4 territory, 5 armies.

The goal in this map is simple :

- get big bonuses ( like austrian monarchy)before the enemy and crush the opponents
- get small, efficient bonuses, stop them from taking big bonuses and crush them

So, if you look at the map from these basis, there are 6 zone of interest :

- 4 big bonus that can be taken in few turns ( sweden, denmark, england-and scotland-, austria)
- 2 zones full of good bonuses ( germany, ukraine-south russia-khanate)
( yes, there are france and spain too. No, they not important)

denmark and sweden are fundamental in this map. Unchallenged are too good to stop
england is good but not as good as the previous. Can challenge france and norway.
In this zone there is scotland too. Its good. I consider It as part of the england zone.
germany can broke norway and austria or france.
the ukraine can duel with austria, is better than germany (cause germany is always duelling) prevent russia/ottoman empire/confederation big bonus; can help deny sweden big bonus if your comrade is in denmark/england
austria is fast to be taken but ukraine can stop your expansion, germany crush you. The worst of the good planes

france can be taken. sure, unchallenged england broke you easily, germany can break you.Nearly pickable.

Spain is simply too slow, the ottoman territory are bad, russia can be taken only if nobody in ukraine and nobody or a teammate in sweden (so it s bad) and italy is good only if you know that somebody is going for france/austrungaria.


1- 1 or 2 guys should go in the northern bonuses
2-the other(s) should go in the other 3 good zone

Rank :

-1 kingdom of denmark
-2 Sweden
-3 Germany/england (+ scotland)
-5 Ukraine-s. russia
-6 Austria
-7 France
-8 the rest

Note : lot of people go for Spain. Spain is bad in Every Euro Map, but they will always pick portugal+spain. Italy or kingdom of morocco can slow them down a lot.
Europe 1600 - About picks: 2/7/2012 19:53:48

Level 31
I'll point out that, while historically accurate, the bonuses can seem unbalanced. For example, Germany (not Germany per se, but the various monarchies that made up Germany before unification under the glorious Reich) are easy to take, while some bonuses seem to be rubbish. Venice sticks out, in my mind, as the kind of bonus noone can have unless they dominate the entire map.
Europe 1600 - About picks: 2/7/2012 20:39:30

[V.I.W] ilpeggiore
Level 58
simply put, half of the map is useless. Or is usefull for dumb teammates
Europe 1600 - About picks: 2/8/2012 13:20:27

[V.I.W] ilpeggiore
Level 58
Europe 1600 - About picks: 2/8/2012 17:37:11

Level 54
Europe 1600 - About picks: 2/8/2012 18:21:27

[V.I.W] ilpeggiore
Level 58
in the first game nobody picked north. If they would spain would be really worse

Second game is more interesting.

1- you were the only one out of the 6 zone, and only with 2 picks
2- you used the most efficient way to take the bonus
3- WM x didnt defend England and couldnt break spain for only 1 armies

If he used his 19 armies for defense instead attack, you ' d had to confront with the 3 northern bonuses.

In fact your team picks were quite good. And gave u time to collect the bonus. The green guy strategy to slow them down worked.

Your team picks were a little worse.
Your team played better.

The point of the topic is : plz noobs dont pick 2 in spian + 1 in portugal.
Europe 1600 - About picks: 2/8/2012 18:43:32

[V.I.W] ilpeggiore
Level 58

In this game, we played 10 turns 3 vs 2+AI. The purple guy was booted first turn. still we won.
Europe 1600 - About picks: 2/9/2012 01:13:29

Level 55

i adjusted the bonuses to make the game more balanced. though parts of the map (parts of russia, poland, lithuania, parts of spain, eastern austria, sweden, anatolia) remain useless for the most part.

i'd say the map is about 50% historical in terms of how the map reflects the actual european balance of power in 1600. one of many possible examples: thanks to the swedish empire's military reforms, its war machine was the most efficient and organized in europe; yet, in this game, to take that bonus is anything but quick/efficient, while taking a more peripheral area of the swedish empire (finland) is more efficient.
Europe 1600 - About picks: 2/9/2012 02:17:34

Level 55
ilpeggiore, my team lost that game because of the gross inefficiency of expansion by our largest player. after green was eliminated from our base areas we should have won. but he hashed the elimination of yellow and expanded so slowly. it should have been his responsibility to defend in the north, i was facing attack from two different opponents with a peak income of 13, and with bonuses that were difficult to protect. somehow i managed to take yellow out of the equation, score some victories on myhand, but it still wasnt enough. i couldnt also have piled armies in belgium to protect england.

i directed my team to the areas they should pick, but i dont think their specific territory choices were very good. in my opinion, the greatest mistake of that game was green on turn 3, allowing my teammate to complete the england bonus. we would have been dead a lot sooner otherwise.

i think there are 4 important regions, ***england***, ***northern italy/switzerland***, the ***area between benelux and pomerania***, and the strange ***'kingdom of denmark'*** bonus (which is 6 territories end to end, and also has the satellite of iceland) which is very vulnerable to the highlands of scotland. i think ***portugal is a*** very reasonable ***backup pick***, as myhand showed in the game. this is because the spanish bonuses are very narrow and can be taken quickly, especially when coupled with an expansion from italy.

***england is most important***, specifically northern england, so ireland and scotland can be used for good counterpick strategies. iceland is very important as it gives one reinforcement and provides access to norway and england.

kingdom of sweden is too difficult to take (the metabonus as a whole and finland and sweden) and too close to the kingdom of denmark to consider, even though it is as small as austria.

***france is kind of like germany in the common europe map***: it has three important zones bordering it and is very difficult to take, and even more difficult to hold. while ***austria*** is a small metabonus like england, it ***is unprotected and difficult to hold***, especially northern austria. you would need cover in italy/northern germany to take it, and that makes for a bad team strategy.

because this map is so unbalanced towards the west (a problem which could be solved by increasing certain bonus values in the east), it can feel strange making picks, because such vast areas are left untouched. however, i dont feel that a team is vulnerable to a slow, unobstructed build as seen by green in our game. essentially, it is the huge victory of myhand in his expansion and consequent battle with my teammate which lost us the game.
Europe 1600 - About picks: 2/9/2012 02:19:39

Level 55
kingdom of morocco is one of the worst choices on the map. that should be your very last backup if you choose it at all.
Europe 1600 - About picks: 2/9/2012 08:15:15

[V.I.W] ilpeggiore
Level 58

sure, you played well. I was only pointing out that u had 19 armies on turn 17 near to the acces to england defending the Oldenburg bonus. i' d retreat from there.
Sure, the pink guy spreaded forces in france instead than going to break spain, after using a lot of them in the north.
( we are not talking about noobs that pick transilvania without checking teammates ....)

I dont like ur team specific territory choice too (if i was you, i 'd go for brandeburg instead sachsen.

About green, i think that's better to go for Ukraine from that spot. Better bonus and
you can challenge sweden while you try to get the Commonwealth bonus.

About zones : Italy is fine as backup but's not that important, because, from there, you are far away from the big bonuses.

From benelux to pomerania is what I called germany.

Dont understimate Sweden+finland. If u can get rid of enemy fast, or if they dont put some armies in norway, it's a strong big bonus ( and i think it 's much more defendable than austria). Osterbotten and Vyborg are natural counterpick to the surrounding bonus.

kingdom of morocco is wonderfull against noob trying to take spain (Lol).

@ Guillame

without big bonuses it's not the same map. The concept changes a lot

i know, i know, my english is really terrible, sorry guys
Europe 1600 - About picks: 2/9/2012 15:56:52

Level 55
i dont think italy should be picked exclusively but there are good bonuses around there + access to austria and luxemberg/germany.

sweden isnt bad to take but it definitely isnt a starting place.
Europe 1600 - About picks: 2/9/2012 16:05:36

Level 55
i also think germany and england shouldnt be grouped together and i think they are each more important than you do. you focus on the metabonuses which can easily be broken by an opponent who gets a good start on the 1s and 2s.

your english is as good as most people who speak it as a first language.
Europe 1600 - About picks: 2/9/2012 17:13:07

[V.I.W] ilpeggiore
Level 58
finland is not bad and can fight norway/denmark, especially if somebody from ur team is in england/scotland. Maybe I overstimated it, when the playing level is higher.

italy is good as backup but after swiss there is wurtenburg (the red +3 bonus...) or france or venice (nothin i would like to conquer). Good think of germany is that allows you to expand into big bonuses (denmark / england especially). Italy dosnt allow this.

- E and G shouldnt be grouped togheter-

I think they are good the same. Not as denmark (maybe more than sweden).

I focused on metabonus / zone because a lot of mediocre player use to start with all their territory in a certain bonus (and i choose always Team B... so they are my teammates). And when they pick Portugal+spain or russia or france or transilvania or in the middle of ottoman empire... my team lose or is in trouble.
I 'd really like guys who picks all in a good zone than in a bad zone.
Sure, maybe the other team can play better or use more raffinate pickin strategy.
But, at least, we wont start with handicap or unchallenged good zone.

[ I love talkin about strategy... wonder why there aren't more strategic topics).
Europe 1600 - About picks: 2/9/2012 18:53:46

Level 55
you shouldnt be able to expand into denmark or england. if your team didnt start there, the other team will have, and germany will be crushed by them most likely. with italy you are right, you cannot take venice, southern italy, wurtenberg. whats good about italy is that you can fight rather than expand from it.
Europe 1600 - About picks: 2/9/2012 19:09:27

[V.I.W] ilpeggiore
Level 58
sure, you need 2 player between england finland germany and denmark zone. Or at least only denmark (or scotland). Otherwise there are few chance to win.
Europe 1600 - About picks: 2/10/2012 10:12:52

[PL] JAKUB 48688
Level 21
Europe 1600 - About picks: 2/10/2012 11:11:43

[V.I.W] ilpeggiore
Level 58
the second game is terrible. (not your part).
Europe 1600 - About picks: 4/10/2012 13:32:29

[V.I.W] ilpeggiore
Level 58
after a lot of playing on this map .....

1- finland is wayyyy good. It controls 4 bonuses, beat norway, can be taken with only 3 picks, is easy to defend and difficult to conquer when u are spreaded all along. Doesnt win games but help a lot in not losing.

2- Ukraine is key. You can take it from russia or from austria overwelming your enemy with 2 big bonuses at time

3- german is good but underrated. Doesnt win games but help a lot in not losing.

4- norway is fast but gives little vantage and isnt easy to defend from england/finland. Even germany can be problematic....

5- italy + spain isnt bad. It's one of the best way to stop austria which

6- austria can be taken in 3 turns (+5 first. Probably the fastest big "big bonus". Very valuable.

7- russia is difficult. Central part is terrible....

8- egypt, turkey, all north russia, moldavia, all in western spain are terrible-bad-quite bad-meh-not so good.

In a 3 player match i 'll choose :

1- scotland
Europe 1600 - About picks: 4/10/2012 14:28:16

Level 26
I always win as Russia, so i say Russia is the best place.
Europe 1600 - About picks: 4/11/2012 13:19:34

[V.I.W] ilpeggiore
Level 58
where u start ? cause south russia is good but i preffer go khanate and transilvania from there.

North russia isnt so hot cause its weak against sweden and there s norway too.

big problem u need some turns to get the central part....
Europe 1600 - About picks: 4/12/2012 00:56:58

[V.I.W] ilpeggiore
Level 58
Europe 1600 - About picks: 8/16/2012 14:09:16

[V.I.W] ilpeggiore
Level 58
im trying to abuse the "3 territory +2 income" bonus (as brandeburg and scotland).

they quite good.

here i won 2vs1 :

yes, orange strategy was ugly.... still 2vs1

here i could hold for 11 turns both opponents (infact after 11 turn, my income and their combined income was the same, 12)

here i could slow 2 guy and help my teammate lala but you can't trust a REGL so we lost in the end. still the little bonus rocked

i was kiddin about regl, huh
Europe 1600 - About picks: 12/27/2012 12:19:16

Level 15
You need about 10 turns to take Russia, but when you do,nothing can stop you.
Europe 1600 - About picks: 12/27/2012 13:20:07

{rp} Julius Caesar 
Level 46
I ussually go in this order with five picks

2 in ireland
1 in scotland
1 in iceland
1 southern england to trap anyone who picked ib england so they surrender quickly which usually works
Europe 1600 - About picks: 12/27/2012 17:00:27

Level 62
Hmm... I like this thread. Never been that good on Europe 1600 but I know at least the basics.

@Paul: Not True. Russia may be a big force to contend with ONCE YOU HAVE IT but if your estimation is correct- which varies greatly on a.) the luck you have in taking territories or b.) the luck in general (changed from the default 75% to whatever)- then a lot can happen in 10 turns. Your teammates might be pushed to the brink of elimination. There might be even a bigger player (in Sweden/Norway) that might have the decency to at least let you take Russia but they can crush you easily because of their large income early on that you did not have previously.

And that's even assuming they let you take Russia. I for one believe in having a small outpost in Russia just in case someone tries to take it. I think it would have been a more excellent starting position had Central/North Russia been downsized into smaller, more easier to take bonuses.

But usually, the way I see it is that 75% Russia wins becuase of
A.) The person in Sweden/Finland has to contend with competition in the North
B.) North is divided between two teammates, therefore there is less income per player
C.) No one simply expects giù coming. Russia looks impossible to take for some players (I have found through excessive team chat and experience) and when they do find out it is too late.
D.) Probably the biggest reason- Person in North (Sweden/Norway) DOES NOT EXPAND EFFICIENTLY. Many players refuse to expand into Sweden becuase it is inefficient to take. Likewise so is Russia, but I think for its bonus, Sweden could have been more efficient to take over.

@Hellbender: Ireland is not an ideal place to start. The territory that is part of England that connects to Ireland (I forgot its name) can connect to All three of Ireland's territories. Judging from your picks I would say you would be going there, and Ireland is massively hard to defend because of the fact that it connects to two of the most common territories on the map - Scotland and England. Scotland is a good choice, especially the top territory that connects it with Norway/Iceland. As for the territory in Southern England---why? It is not anywhere remotely useful, and maybe there might be no one in England, which would make that territory useless to have. Better start in Northern England so that if there is no one in England/Scotland you can take it more efficiently.

With your picks I'd expect you to be playing scout though...
Europe 1600 - About picks: 12/27/2012 17:35:59

[REGL] Pooh 
Level 59
In a 3v3, each player with 4, i like the following:
Each Player puts as their number 1: Iceland, North Scotland (the Highlands?) and NW Ireland (Connagut?).

The player with Iceland then spreads two picks throughthe rest of denmark, ideally spread very far out. Finally, a Counter Pick in Center (Italy is good, as well as Germany)

The Player with Scotland also picks South Scotland and South England and a center counter pick. Giving quick access to the Scotland +2 bonus and allowing England to be filled quickly.

The Player in Ireland puts 2 in South Russia and 1 in North Russia bordering Denmark.

Here, you have 3 players in the important area... England/Denmark. The Russia Player will fill out Ireland and South Russia quickly, and being spread North/South in Russia, can fill that out fairly quickly. What's key about ireland is that it gives the russia guy a protected bonus and it doesn't interfere with the england super bonus.

The England/Denmark Players can keep their counter picks still in the center untill they secure their main bonuses.
Europe 1600 - About picks: 12/27/2012 17:41:06

{rp} Julius Caesar 
Level 46
my picks rely heavily on luck my secondary picks are usually in Spain and a bonus or two in broken Germany but Ireland is a good bonus to start with because its easy to get and one i control it if there is someone in England i have that game opening bonus of one extra army that can mean everything to win the match. Also if your lucky there's nobody there and you can take the entire bonus i also usually get one of my team mates to take over Norway in his picks so i am safe in the north and he is safe in the south.
that is my strategy because it is then easy to take over France and German kingdoms along with eventually Austria.
Europe 1600 - About picks: 12/27/2012 17:44:09

{rp} Julius Caesar 
Level 46
see here is the deployment of my strategy
Europe 1600 - About picks: 12/27/2012 17:50:47

Level 55
We could all learn so much from you, Hell bender.
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