I think you can reach a certain skill level to know your chances of winning at any given time, especially when the information available is quite good.

If you don't think this is possible, perhaps the fog of war is thicker for you.

Fizzer has the right to do what he sees fit. But does that make his actions right?

The CIA and FBI violate our privacy, the CIA hacks Senate computers, and the CIA kills, tortures, and steals in the name of what is best for all Americans. Does that make their actions right?

Or does the end justify the means? Fizzer is justified if he violates legitimate vacations and picks winners in games, tournaments, or seasons?

How is Fizzer's actions different from mine? I think I won on picks. I decided I should win. Fizzer thought my picks dont matter and my vacation is not real. He decided I should lose. I think Widz is wise when he says neither is good. But what else is there to do? Hope for a coin flip when you have them outpicked and outpositioned? Two of my enemies picked bonuses with wastelands! I had them all countered and had better growth options! Trust me, I would have won those games if we played them out.

Edited 3/14/2014 17:36:14

More about Fizzer's actions:

The only reason he booted me was because I was playing two guys who had a chance at first and I had a chance at first.

If my opponents didnt matter and if I didnt matter, Fizzer would have allowed me to win.

Why? Because I did not break any rules. I won on picks. I protected my advantage. I went on vacation.

If I am ahead on armies mid game and protect my advantage and win, is that any different?

I dont think the number of turns matters. What matters is who is most likely to win at any given moment. If that likelihood is relatively high and the person protects his advantage and wins, that is strategy. If the likelihood is low or even and he wins on a tiebreaker, that is cheap.

I have had enemies surrender on turn 1 after they had better starts than RB, TWM and Zibik's. I truly believe that at least one of them would have surrendered if they had full knowledge of my starts and what I knew about their starts, play styles, and probable locations.

Edited 3/14/2014 17:46:06

Voodoo What you did is bad and you should feel bad! You deserved to be booted! Fizzer did the right thing! I'm about damn tired of stalling on the ladders, and you deserved to be banned

Your busy schedule affects your game time. Take it like a man instead of whining that you should of won and thus abusing the system is justified.

Life sometimes gets in the way of warlight :/

And a note, Fizzer isn't picking winners, just deciding you shouldn't of won that way.

If he allows you to do it, anyone could do it. That is clearly wrong.

Edited 3/14/2014 17:48:27

TWM, in that case I will report you.

You said in our public chat that you want to hunt me down and rape me. You said you will find my IP address to locate me and then rape me.

I have never before been threatened in a game like that. I dont know much abkut computers. But I believe it is possible for you to find me. And now you are speaking a bit aggressively again.

With such talk, you certainly dont deserve anything you accomplish.

TWM what's your problem? So you just butt into an argument with a biased opinion and tell voodoo off without even bothering with an argument? Why not just chant 'hail fizzer' instead? Takes less time and we can see less of your idiocy.

@Vile, the problem is that are many other people like voodoo that game the system and yet the people that suffer for, this don't always get their games finished like this, so what fizzer did was unfair.

Edited 3/14/2014 17:51:08

Well you should be banned for multi accounting on the ladder! hahahahah!

@Pulsey I could argue but I'm at school and don't feel like typing a big argument, but nice to see you kissing Voodoos butt

Edited 3/14/2014 17:53:33

I don't see how Fizzer is abusing his powers if since the dawn of time all Terms of Services that you've agreed to pretty much say that the creator of the site can do as he deems necessary in any situation so long as he doesn't break whatever contract he made when you purchased your blue M.

Not every abuser can be found, that doesn't mean those that are shouldn't be dealt with, especially when it's such an extreme and blatant case such as this.

Thats a ridiculous argument, lolowut. So if I manage a football league I'm allowed to rig it?

If what voodoo said is true, than it cerainly is unfair. Even if it doesn't violate any laws or anything. It gave someone an unfair advantage in a fair tournament,t and for that I think it's much more unsportsmanlike than gaming the system or delaying your games, not to mention that action shouldn't even have been taken in the first place since they don't even violate the rules of warlight.

How could all this have been prevented? Simple. Announce the implementation of new rules regarding ladder etiquette. Then people know what to expect and can't complain.

That's all I have to say for now, good night.

Edited 3/14/2014 18:04:54

Others game the system when they have lost. I gamed the system in games I had won on picks. There is a difference. When they game the system, they end up with outrageous ratings and rankings they didn't earn with skill. I skillfully picked and would have won those games if I didnt need a vacation. To preserve wins I felt I earned with the quality of my starting positions relative my opponents, I tried to preserve a victory I felt I had in hand. Instead, Fizzer made my account surrender. Thus, the difference: others lose, game the system, and get higher ratings/rankings; I had those games won on picks and positioning, I gamed the system to preserve my victories, and Fizzer made me lose so my rating and ranking go down.

TWM doesnt even argue how bad his starting spots are or how good his chances of winning were. He saw the history. So he doesnt need to argue this.

Instead he makes an ad hominem argument.

The idea of Fizzer violating legitimate vacations and choosing winners and losers is more important than a ridiculous ad hominem discussion.

Those who abuse the system when they have lost should also be punished. The point is, i think a line should be set. Doing this isn't an acceptable way to play, for any reason. In my worthless opinion .

This brings up the bigger question to me...

Why the hell are vacations honored on the ladders? If you need to take vacations, leave the ladder for the duration.

Edited 3/14/2014 18:54:20

I agree with Richard. Vacations and tiebreakers on the seasonal are both far from ideal. Cards not being counted can lead to manipulation, and Fizzer advised me precisely how to game the system to play the cards. Vacations should be allowed, but there should be penalties or restrictions.

Simply causing me to lose four games I had won on picks is nkt the ideal solution, especially since I followed all the rules of the game. The person who did not follow the rules was Fizzer. Games won on picks, legitimate vacation, yet booted? Why? Because Fizzer suspected something evil? Because he didnt want me to win the seasonal ladder? If I was a nobody playing nobodies, he wouldnt care. I didnt break any rules. I didnt try to steal a victory. I had those games won already, and the legitimacy of their wins on tiebreakers is far greater than at least 30% of all games determined on these tiebreaker rules. In a 50-50 situation, one guy wins by 1 army but has worse positioning. Is that fair? I had far better positioning, counters, growth possibilities. So I made sure I had more armies too.

Edited 3/14/2014 18:24:43

Both sides have some good points here, I don't think Voodoo should have gamed the system based on an educated assumption that he had won his matches already, but I also don't think Fizzer should have punished Voodoo quite so harshly without consulting Voodoo as well as outside opinions (like we're gathering now).

One thing I do want to know Voodoo, were you ever warned by Fizzer previous to the forced surrenders?

At any rate, we won't be able to make any conclusions on this until Fizzer comes here to give his side to the story.

In case Richard is refering to me:

Once I realized I wouldnt be able to finish my games and have the time and energy needed f9r my work and family, I quit the ladder and went on vacation.

All this would be much different if the ladders didmt malfunction. If you recall, no new games were created for many days. Fizzer's system broke down. If that didnt happen, I definitely would have taken more turns in my games. The Noob I played surrendered in all his games. I would have won by surrender too against him. At least one or two of my games would have finished. Ajd by the time my vacation took place, I would have only had one or two games unfinished, but they would have been advanced enough that I would have been able to win with a clearer advantage in armies and income (assuming I still had the same opponents and we make the same picks, which is a truly hypothetical situation).

Fizzer's system broke down, it cost me precious time, and then he ends up booting me in games I had won on picks. Sounds fair to me.

you're supposed to play the game till the end. the tiebreaker is meant to be able to end the damn season sooner. not to provide a way to win the ladder without actually playing the games through.

if you dont have time to play the season properly then surrender and drop out of the ladder.

Fizzer never warned me. I assume he read Krzychu's post, maybe he clicked on my games tk see what the board looked like (but I doubt he can see behind the fog for a game in progress), and he immediately forced my account to surrender.

Even if he looked at the board, I dont think he was looking to see if I had an advantage or not. He simply wanted to see if what Krzychu said was true. And if it was, he would boot me. Krzychu is correct in his assessment. What he didnt say was that I had all the games won on picks. Fizzer also knew the account was mine. He assumed I was up to no good and that my vacation is not real.

Ultimately, Fizzer made too many assumptions and acted rashly without getting enough information. I learned that I was booted after work. I worked from 7am to 11pm and right before I left the office I checked WL for something. And I saw that Voodoo surrendered in four games in one or two minutes. I checked my profile. Vacation unchanged. I was shocked that Fizzer would do such a thing.

Edited 3/14/2014 18:41:18

Good point ps. But I did have time to finish 16 and maybe 17 games. The problem is the ladder broke and I didnt get any games for almost a week. I was playing my games fast. Check and see. I could have finished 4 more games by late February. But three of them didnt even get started until late February. Fizzer said he might extend the season to deal with the problem of the ladder being broken for about a week. I checked game counts. It seemed less and less likely that the season would be extended. If 3 of my remaining 4 opponents didnt slow play, there was a slim chance to finish the games (play quickly until my vacation, take turns when I extend, try to find the guys in real-time). But without the extension, I didn't see many options for me.

Edited 3/14/2014 18:49:47

You tried to cheat, you got caught. Get over it.

Players are expected to make a reasonable effort to finish a game before the season ends. If you try to intentionally win a game by force-finish that you would have otherwise lost, the win will be taken away from you.

Your argument is that you won on picks. Maybe this is true, but in your first turn of the game all you did was deploy 5 and issue no attacks. After doing that, you gave away any advantage you may have held, and were most surely not winning the game, rendering the "I won on picks" argument irrelevant.

Second, you were stalling the games for over 25 days. That's nearly half the season. You say you got busy, however, if you can't even find time to make one turn in 25 days, you really should have just not played the season (or if it couldn't have been predicted, surrendered since you didn't have enough time to finish the season.) Your argument that WarLight should bend to cater to your schedule is invalid -- if you want to participate in the seasonal ladder, you need to be able to play the games.

Third, and more from a philosophical point of view, the strategy of deploying 5 armies in the first turn and waiting for the force-finish simply cannot be allowed in WarLight since there's no counter to it. It would completely ruin the game. Imagine how you would feel if this strategy was used on you.