Okay I read this source as "pars pro toto" about the bacterial flagellum:

http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/design2/article.html

It is just like I said before. They claimed irreducibility refuted by showing that a part of the whole machinery does exist somewhere else.

This is like claiming that the Otto-Motor is not irreducible complex by showing that the screws or the valves or the cylinders are used in other machinery.

This is basically stating: "Evolution is a fact. It did happen somehow. Therefore, there is no irreducibility."

Because their reasoning explaining the process of evolving an irreducible complex flagellum goes as this:

1. We got a part of the flagellum somewhere. [proven]
2. Then parts are shuffled. [Black Box]
3. Then parts fit somehow together in one huge leap - overleaping the irreducibility - for a certain function like the flagellum. [Black Box]
4. Then the so leaped together flagellum has redundant function for propulsion (because propulsion is vital so there must have been another mechanism for propulsion) [Black Box]
5. Then the better funtioning apparatus, the flagellum, remains, [Black Box]
6. likened to the rock arch. [actually seen and therefore proven]

Behe called his book "Darwin's Black Box". Isn't that a proper name? The Black Box remains, the Irreducibility remains.

They just say, "The irreducibility must have been leaped over, because we know that it must have happened somehow ." And this is it. I am not impressed. But Behe is refuted, right? This is SO cheap, I cannot say. No sparkling of intellect. Just dogma. And on goes the chanting "Evidence, Evidence, we got it". Okay. I am tired.

Edited 4/21/2014 14:34:38

Why are you still discussing this? Everyone knows the Flying Spaghetti Monster created everything, including the concepts of evolution and the big bang. They are each bites of tasty spaghetti he feeds to the masses. Duh.

Julkorn by using figurative language, you oversimplify to the point of misunderstanding. You cannot be argued with because every time your arguement is beaten down, you repeat it using twice as many words. "Save your keys?" Jesus you generate more waffle than an American café at 10AM.

I admit that I am difficult to understand. And I agree that using figurative language got the flaw that there might be something incorrect under the surface. Well, okay. Lets leave it here, okay? Vote to end, so to say. ;)

Edited 4/21/2014 17:17:12

Hey, fascist moron, I've got a new one for ya. Gays can't reproduce. Therefore homosexuality disproves evolution! You can go share that with your friends at the westboro baptist church.

Guess Ricky Martin will be disappointed to find out the kids aren't actually his and that his wife is a cheating w***e. Well, that's life for ya.