Sze is boycotting the 1v1 ladder on his own. Dead piggy is surrendering in all his games on his own. Pulsey and I have advocated gaming the system as a means to change the system. Others don't play the seasonal, 1v1, 2v2, or RT ladder for their own reasons.

But none of this is coordinated. And nothing has changed.

What if as many people as possible stopped playing NEW ladder games on EVERY ladder until Fizzer addresses the following concerns:

(1) 1v1 and 2v2 Ladders: People game the system. Change the system so it is not gamed as easily and so more people will be willing to play it. Change the incentives so that the fewest number of games played is not the goal, and people have more incentives to play more games and stay active.

(2) Rotating Template 2v2 Multiday Ladder? MME? Heavy Earth? SzeEuropa? Guiropa? Guiroma? People vote for the templates.

(3) Seasonal Ladder Templates: Based on voting? Not randomly chosen by Fizzer? He picks and we play? This is not ideal. We should pick and play!

(4) RT Ladder: New templates? Don't let us see who is waiting?

(5) All Ladders, New and Old: Based on voting by members? We paid Fizzer money to play a game. He creates games but doesn't play the ladders. We play the ladders. Why should somebody who doesn't play the ladders determine what the templates are?

I propose that we boycott all ladders. 1v1, 2v2, Seasonal, RT.

Stop playing new games. No main accounts. No alts.

Boycott the ladders until Fizzer improves the ladders (templates, choice of templates in the future, less gaming).

Anybody with me?

Edited 6/17/2014 06:00:14

Sure, can I keep surrendering games?

If you want.

I have no problems with the last two ladders but I'm with you for the others.

A boycott would not do anything. In fact, it'd probably help them, assuming the better players are the ones boycotting.

The best way to enact change is to make your own ladder and prove how your ideas would dwarf the current ladders in popularity. I'd even help promote it.

@Fizzer, but nobody want play in an unofficial ladder, like a CLOT. Most player want partecipate for appear in the top of the dashboard and/or get a trophie.

A unofficial ladder will never have more players than official.
However, when PS (i think) hosted the 3v3 ladder, many players joined it (more than 50 i think).

Did someone else than krzychu ever programmed a CLOT? i would leave the 1vs1 ladder if there is something comparable with a new way to rate players.
EDIT:just saw ps did too

Edited 6/17/2014 07:26:44

Problem is, we are not programmers. We need you Fizzer.

Also i would like to make a question to Fizzer (that i hope he will answer us):
change a template(s) in ladders should be a fast thing, right?
So why you can't just make a poll for let us vote the templates?

Problem is, we are not programmers. We need you Fizzer.

Nobody is born a programmer. Go get a book and read it. That's all I did.

change a template(s) in ladders should be a fast thing, right? So why you can't just make a poll for let us vote the templates?

The RT ladder and seasonal ladder did just that. They recently had polls, and their settings were set to the highest voted options. The 1v1 and 2v2 aren't designed as rotating template ladders and are supposed to be relatively static.

this is only half true.
We all enjoyed season 14 (guiroma), but season 15 isn't being votated.
RT ladder changed only 2 templates. I would me happy to see a new poll, with 25/30 templates, and top 10 became the new 10 templates.
You put in poll every templates we suggested, and the top 10 with more voted became the 10 templates of rt ladder. What about this?

P.S.: any chance to increase the number of times you can play the same opponent in same day?

Edited 6/17/2014 08:44:47

Europe 2.0 for 3v3 Ladder!

Specialization: Your experience in creating WL is valuable. You can make more seamless ladders than any of us. And, since WL is your company, you have made this your job. My specialization is to think, teach and write. This is what I have spent years on. Your expecting me to become you is no less ridiculous than me expecting you to become quatrilingual and read 200 books in a matter of months.

Visibility: No CLOT will ever be as visible as your ladders, and so participation rates will always be less. Are there auto-games for CLOTs in Open Games? Nope. How many CLOTs can be played on now? I don't know. I don't see any CLOTs accessible via WL's website.

Specialization on WL: Some of us play, some of us create maps, some of us make templates, and only you, Fizzer, program. Wouldn't WL be better if the best programmer for WL (Fizzer) works with the best mapmakers (Ra, Incaman, Chaos, others) and best template makers to make better ladders, better built-in templates, and better auto-games?

The best map on the best template on a CLOT will never replace the official ladders, despite their imperfections. Visibility and smoothness/seamlessness are too much for CLOTs to overcome.

Nobody is born a programmer. Go get a book and read it. That's all I did.

Okay, writing a clot cant be that hard.

Edited 6/17/2014 10:04:42

I think Fizzer's proposal is a very good one. He even promised to promote new CLOT's. If we can't make our own, better ladder, then we can't really complain about his.

Programming isn't as difficult to learn as people think. 125ch went from zero to get 6th place in Warlight AI challenge in 2 months.

So, what do we want this new clot to do? real time with new templates? I am happy to do the work here, but i dont give a bother about the actual templates as i will not be playing them.

If I were to recommend something, I'd recommend starting with improving thw worst ladder, and that is by far 2v2. Implement non-expiring TrueSkill algorythm to a rotating template 2v2 ladder, I can give a lot of viable templates, we'll end up with 20-30 overall.

List of candidates for 2v2 rotating tempalte ladder:
- strat 2v2 (0% wr instead of 16% always ofc)
- guiropa
- szeuropa
- china 2v2
- poland 2v2
- LOTR 2v2
- france 2v2
- Ursa Luna 2v2
- Black Sea 2v2
- Guiroma 2v2

I'll be happy to make many more recommendations and/or new templates. If people would want more cards, I'd start making some card-centric templates specifically designed around a specific card.

i agree with szew 100% on the list of template.

P.S.: seems szew waived to claim that he made the 2v2 china =)

i add link:

- guiropa       http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?TemplateID=240921
- szeuropa      http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?TemplateID=267813
- china 2v2     http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?TemplateID=459393
- poland 2v2    http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?TemplateID=380649
- LOTR 2v2      http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?TemplateID=396406
- france 2v2    http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?TemplateID=380653
- Ursa Luna 2v2
- Black Sea 2v2
- Guiroma 2v2   http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?TemplateID=254966  

i am not finding black sze sea (the template should called so) and ursa luna 2v2.

All template should be 0% WR or 0% SR, never 16%. I am skeptical about introduce more template with cards, i think 2v2 ME is enough.

Edited 6/17/2014 13:25:06