the top 20 is so debatable that the entire premise of saying the "top 20" is silly, I don't particularly care personally. Perhaps you should name it "20 of the top" instead to satisfy those who are persistent and annoying.

Oliebol: 1st in 2v2 ladder, best 1v1 player.

Beelzebub: Gui killer. So elite he had to quit #Elite!. 90% win ratio. Best player on many maps: eg Real-life Europe, Turkey.

Who is mars never heard of him before

He is just another monkey...

Actually I do believe he is one of the guys who didn't deserve the 20 tag.
Gui is much better than him. It is a shame that he wasn't included.
I guess the Anti-Gui Monkey put big pressures on the judges!
As Gui's lawyer I will make sure that it will be hanged when the trial will be over.

http://warlight.net/MultiPlayer?TournamentID=2481

Talking about dunga and bisherup. I don't think they "improved" in that period, they were great players even then.

Perhaps Apex is represented so well because they are one of the two best clans :D [WM] is represented a bit better even I think. From the top 20, 3 are apex, 4 are [WM]. The 10 alternates include 2 [WM] members, and 1 apex member.

Go ahead and post this with your older account so we know who it is. This does not just go by 1v1. Niko is definitely up there on 1v1. But on team games, he might not be quite as good. Aziridine just wasn't voted in. I personally would put him in my top 20 list if I voted as well. But as you yourself said, my opinion is worthless. And its not all about Strategic 1v1, it matters about overall gameplay. He just didn't quite have the votes needed to make it into the top 20. Any of those top 5 alternates especially, were extremely close to being in right away. It is hard to determine the overall top 20. But the problem is, no matter how they are decided, someone will have a problem with it because they felt like they should make it in.

I have never actually seen Mars play a game. But he was one of the top couple vote getters and if asked who is the top player in the game by a good player who has seen Mars play, they will say Mars is one of the best.

Actually I have heard stories about Mars. Legend has it he disappeared when the Roman Empire fell. And a prophet predicted he would return to Earth "at the beckoning of a man at the apex of 320." JSA must be the man. 20's 3rd season the time.

i think i could join up in proving grounds A, if i could be invited

Red, why the tournament link? That shows nothing in my opinion. Dunga and you both went 4-4 and Bishes got booted in a few games, including the one against you. In my opinion, that shows you are very good but I don't see any sign you are better than either of them. Not to mention, it is just one tournament, which doesn't make a big difference. Consistency is rewarded.

I am pretty sure dunga has improved at least and it in games I have seen, he is a better player than you. And most of the A Leaguers think so to. He was voted in the top 10 in many people's votes and overall was rated in the top 10 after all the votes were added together. Bishes was voted in as well by popular vote and was in the top 20 of most of the votes, and the top 10 in a couple. You just pure and simple got outvoted. You may have gotten underrated this season or perhaps you got overrated last season. I personally don't feel like you are at the level of the A League players and the top guys agree with me. There's always a chance you'll get in as an alternate.

My question is... has season II been concluded in any way?

"I've never played with Aziridine, but I'm sure he is great in strategic templates, but in my opinion if a guy has no europe experience, he cannot be considered at all into the top 5."

Trollusa, didn't we just play a Europe 3v3 game last week? Which team had the [20] players? Which team won? Don't make me post the game link ;) Not saying I'm top 5 of course (those weren't my words), given what I'm saying below. But some of us don't need to play hundreds of games to figure out one particular map...

JSA, I have no problems with the way players were selected - that's probably how I'd do it myself. But Gui was always careful to say that [20] was for twenty of the best players, not necessarily the twenty best. Without any sort of objective rating system for both non-members and members that takes team games into account, I don't see how one could ever make the latter claim in a meaningful way.

Aziridine, That is true. There will always be disagreements when players are very equal in skill and it is nearly impossible to truly see which one is better. And some guys are at a different level on different settings. Meaning some guys are better at Europe, and some guys excel at medium earth, and some are even all the way around. I think it shouldn't make a big difference to anyone which league they are in. Obviously, some guys like Sze and Myhand and Mars shouldn't be in B League. But for guys like Aziridine, Surehand, Luxis, Huruey, Gnuffone, etc. they will be able to compete in either one. B League looks very good this season. Those guys wouldn't dominate B League, although they would probably win over 1/2 of their games. But in A League, they won't get destroyed either. They'll probably lose over 1/2 of their games, but at least most will be competitive and they will win some. Some of the fault is mine, for hyping it up a bit too much on the first post in this thread :p But I feel like we all need to remember that the point of these leagues is to enjoy playing against players similar to our skill and have fun, rather than it being all about who finishes the best.

You do realize that winning 1/2 and losing 1/2 is the same? You make it sound like it's completely different :P

Haha I understand they are the same Frank :) I was saying if they are in A League they win less than 50%, meaning to be more specific, they would win 25-50% in A League. In B League, they would probably win 50-75%. I'm not for sure on those numbers, but that would be my guess.

Season 1 Voting: Done by popular vote for lack of a better system. Not ideal results but a good start.

Season 2 Initial Invitations: Based on Season 1's results and based on ladder, real-time and tournament results.

Season 2 Eventual Invitations: Low participation rate for A, needed bodies from B to start a couple A tournaments; I deleted a couple other A tournaments. B tournaments had high participation and seemed quite competitive.

Prediction for Season 3: Myhand and a few others won't play at all. Lots of tournaments = not all will be filled. Three types of players (all-around, 1v1 specialists, team specialists) = voting based on what each voter values (I voted for all-around players who are good on many maps).So, unfilled team tournaments should find the next best team players in the next league and unfilled 1v1 tournaments should do the same with 1v1 specialists.

If participation is relatively high, season 4's initial invitations will be better. Each new season should have more accurate categorizations of leagues.

woooooooooooo


???

Hell bender, could you do us a favor and stop spamming senseless shit in every thread?
Thanks

Senseless shit is a mean way to put it but yes I will stop posting senseless shit in the forum if it bothers you so much

im sorry hellbender, but i agree with tirminator. was there any need for your second last post?
can i be in group B