Everytime I read the news there are topics like: slave-like employement conditions at amazon or Zalando. polluted food. toothpaste is carcinogenic. shower gel shrinks your testicles and causes impotence. allergenic body care products. no animal tests anymore - chemical products go untested to the consumer. hormone-changing products alter stem cells into fat cells. Veterinarians arent needed anymore within the animal fattening - concerns will control theirselfs.
politicians waste trillians of tax money without fearing any consequences and dont even need to explain their actions. employes get fired when they take deposit coupons home. everyone is observed, everywhere at every time. politically critic TV series get canceled even when they are successfull. doctor uses citric acid to desinfect wounds after surgical intervention for saving money. seniors are abused in nursing home. rents doubles in the last 7 years. female students prostitutes to their leesor to afford a flat. and so on.

It seems that a few big shots can cross every moral border for their own benefits. Im surprised that no one seriously fights those circumstances. this lack of consideration for the fellow men is alarming.

Edited 7/22/2014 19:13:09

Yeah let's go communist! Public acceptance is at an all time high in North Korea I hear...

you mean dictatorship not communism - there is an immense difference by definition. and as the dictatorship, or in this case tyranny, is the degeneration of the capitalism, I really dont get your point ^^

Edited 7/22/2014 23:37:56

It dosen't have to be black or white.
Capitalism laid the foundations for modern society. Global trade, communications etc. For many of us here this entailed a growth in free thought and a broadening of horizons. Long story short it was the capitalism model that brought the competition that brought about every invention we use now.
That being said, the criticisms of capitalism arent unfounded either. Mass data collecting, violating privacy, unstable economic/banking systems has lead to much hardship. If the communists were wrong for controlling the masses then so are the efforts of capitalist leaders. That isnt supporting communism, that is legitimate criticism on a flawed system.

I cant speak for many but I can speak for myself. I much rather no choice than a false illusion.

stop reading the news?

Must you always be so controvsial, Ranek? ;)

Half of your 'news stories' have nothing to do with capitalism.It is not only capitalists who cross these moral borders. Nursing staff and doctors could easily be socialist or not have any political view.

I disagree Mr Oobling. and I actually dont want to argue against the idealogy. I rather want to argue against effects of ideology on the society. capitalism appeals at first at the fundamental laws of nature. the law of the stronger, and the law of the first. also the free market economy is an adaptation of darwinism - only the fittest will survive and in the end it's like the Highlander principle: There can be only one! ^^
all those news have one thing in common; socially degrading and the acceptance of physical damage among the consumers is a resource to increase profits.

GeneralGror, as long as you keep on smiling Im fine with that =)

Edited 7/23/2014 22:09:00

What's wrong with this society? People who whinge, moan and complain about things and then proceed to do absolutely nothing to change anything.

First off, if you, Ranek, really are a full-blown communist (which I don't think you are), I will have no part in this discussion because trying to talk sense to a full communist is like trying to teach quantum physics to an earthworm.

Communism is, theoretically, a great idea. It can and does function well in certain environments, but almost solely in small-town circumstances. It is relatively easy to make 130 people in a small, tight-knit community agree on something, but on a larger scale, the theory utterly falls apart. for example, if a country like, say, the UK, tries to become communist, all it will take is one or two people out of 60,000,000 to completely destroy the system. no large-scale communist society in history has been even remotely successful, predominantly because they tend to transform themselves into autocracies.

As far as your attacks on capitalism, I would like to adapt one of my favorite Winston Churchill quotes: "Capitalism is the single worst type of economy... except for all the others." If you are going to bash capitalism so severely, please suggest a practical alternative. It certainly isn't a perfect system, but it is so much better than any other large-scale economy that humans have tried.

Another, somewhat cliched argument, is that of the media. You said that you see all of these morally wrong events happening in the newspapers and on news TV stations. The fact is a headline like "Young Johnny Eats Mint Chip Ice Cream Cone and Loves It" really doesn't pass in the news world. The media has the incentive to highlight the negatives of society, so it seems like the world is a much worse place than it actually is. The media simply doesn't tell you about all the times that something bad doesn't happen.

Anyway, that's my spiel. Feel free, anyone, to critique my assertions but just make sure that you have your facts straight and your arguments derived from your brain, not from a deep emotional upheaval.

Better dead than red. I just hate communism, every kind of communism. URSS, China, Cambogia, North Korea, Cuba, Jugoslavia... communism killed approxately 100 milion people. That's all.

About capitalism:

"(The capitalism) is not intelligent. It is not beautiful. It is not just. It is not virtuous. And it doesn't deliver the goods. In short we dislike it, and we are beginning to despise it. But when we wonder what to put in its place, we are extremely perplexed." [J.M.Keynes]

Edited 7/24/2014 08:00:45

..so many empty and happy sheep brains in here..

..I have always wondered why would people in a discussion about shitty capitalism advocate it by saying "communism is even more shitty" or "capitalism is shitty, but there is nothing better"..

..sadly so many sheep in the society is the reason that rulers of this world keep ruling..but on the other hand, evolution is all around us and I believe that in 50 years, some change in thinking of many people may slowly come..

P.S.: my first and last comment in WL forum

NoMercy, I know you're not going to respond to this, but it really is true that capitalism is the least problematic of any economic system that we humans have ever tried to put in place. In life, it is often necessary to choose the lesser of two evils instead of one choice that is "good".

I agree with you that somewhere down the road in the story of humanity some person or group may discover a more effective economic structure, but history has proven that trying to speed up the ingenuity of the human brain only damages the final product. We need to accept that capitalism is the best system of economics, until a better one arises on its own.

ARC, NoMercy is just another fool who criticizes the current system while failing to present a valid alternative. It's easy to criticize and complain but damned hard to improve or provide constructive inputs.

The media has the incentive to highlight the negatives of society, so it seems like the world is a much worse place than it actually is. The media simply doesn't tell you about all the times that something bad doesn't happen.

One of the most important things to remember when reading the news (at least local and national news, anyway).

um, there's this thing called socialism. it's not quite capitalism and it's not quite communism but hahahahaha oh man

Better dead than red. I just hate communism, every kind of communism. URSS, China, Cambogia, North Korea, Cuba, Jugoslavia... communism killed approxately 100 milion people. That's all.

About capitalism:

"(The capitalism) is not intelligent. It is not beautiful. It is not just. It is not virtuous. And it doesn't deliver the goods. In short we dislike it, and we are beginning to despise it. But when we wonder what to put in its place, we are extremely perplexed." [J.M.Keynes]

Oh, how it works in theory.

Capitalism is better than the alternatives, but not that great in itself. The is no way of creating a model that works flawlessly, so we have to make do with capitalism if we want our lives fucked up as little as possible.

Ok, I just want to mention that my intention wasnt a comparisson between capitalism and its alternatives especially communism. I really dont know why everybody associates communism with this thread, brainwash?^^

Richard Sharpe, there is no reason why I should figure out a solution for all the crazy shit that went wrong in the western society! Im not the man in charge. Although, those who are in charge are certainly massively part of the grievances. However, I simply wanted to discuss the evolution of socially decay and their possible reasons. If you want to create a better world, feel free to give it a try!

ARC, NoMercy is just another fool who criticizes the current system while failing to present a valid alternative. It's easy to criticize and complain but damned hard to improve or provide constructive inputs.

It's not only easy to criticize the current system and its failures, it's absolutely nessecary! Otherwise no one in charge would notice that something went wrong and thing would grow worse.
I`m absolutely fine, if you want to seriously trivialize those crimes, but please dont insult those as foolish, that disagree with your misanthropic attitude.

Master ARC, I know a better quote by Churchill, after World War II: "We have slaughtered the wrong pig." (Hitler was the wrong pig and Stalin would have been the right one) - Churchill was just another hardliner and war criminal that bombed out entire cities that havent been military aims. But you are right, every nation, that proclaimed communism failed, although there are other alternatives like a socially democracy or maybe socialism.
I really like your point about the media. Unfortunately, most of my headlines doesnt only effect individual fates rather wide spread parts of the society.

Better dead than red. I just hate communism, every kind of communism. URSS, China, Cambogia, North Korea, Cuba, Jugoslavia... communism killed approxately 100 milion people. That's all.

Master Adrianokx, to be precise communism never excist. Those hundred millions died within dictatorships!

if a society of many only works for few, it has failed and wont persist, no matter that others failed before.