I am neither a theist nor an atheist. So I see no need to prove anything. But, if atheists think they are superior beings for their logic, reasoning, and science, then why not use this logic, reasoning, and science to some effect?

Those lowly Christians who lack logic, reasoning, and science merely believe. Yet, the superior beings also only believe. Both merely have opinions. Where is the logic, reasoning, and science if we are only able to remain at the level of opinions?

The only difference is that theists may appear naive when stating their opinions as facts and oppressive if they limit the freedoms of non-believers; while atheists may appear arrogant or pretentious when criticizing theists and hypocritical for denying others the right to have an opinion/belief when they themselves are no better.

"The existence or non-existence of God has absolutely no tangible outcome."

Those lowly Christians who lack logic, reasoning, and science merely believe. Yet, the superior beings also only believe. Both merely have opinions. Where is the logic, reasoning, and science if we are only able to remain at the level of opinions?

What's worse is when they are humanists, which really is a belief system no better than religion. Dawkins infuriates me with his dismissal of religious values and then hypocritically following it up with the baseless, wishy-washy bullshit of humanism. At those times I don't consider him to be any better than a theist.

Also, congratulations on figuring out that God doesn't exist, Wordsworth & Aranka. You did it. Now, how many times do you need to keep rehearsing the same (borrowed) arguments with yourselves? It's time to move on.

"Without hope, we have nothing." That's the whole basis of religion at its simplest, or at least what I've seen (even though no one religious will admit it to me). It's a hope that we are not alone, and that there is something greater than us, whose life is unending. Thing about it: at His finest, He is everything we strive to be. At His lowest, He's everything we are.

*cough* I looovvveeeee the Church...

what is important on christianity in america ?
i pretty much figured religion was an individual choice in almost all countries ...

Constitution, Declaration of Independence,and the Preamble all mention God. LEGAL DOCUMENTS THAT GOVERN THE COUNTRY... that's all c:

I posted awhile a ago in respond to warlightvet troll question but that did not show.

Anyways I agree with this guy.

I believe in God (as I said I left the Catholic church because I don't believe in their interpretations of Christianity/the bible), but I do not believe in destiny. I think that many things happen for a reason, but that our path is not predetermined. Fate may bring two people together, for example, but you choose how to act on that opportunity.

I'm not sure how people that believe the opposite (that God effects all things) can survive. If so, how do you justify tragedies occurring? God wanted those people to die? God is testing us and we failed? Those same people use religion as a crutch (god made me kill these people, etc). I hold people accountable for their actions as we all have choices to make.

Ironheart, I agree with that guy too. :)

I'm going to throw my thoughts in this conversation for a bit. Qi, your recurring argument has been that "While Atheists claim to have superior intellect, they have not disproved the existence of a God to theists." I feel like you're using this a bit out of context and/or not understanding the reason there has not been a widespread revelation among theists.

Using Christianity as the example, the fundamental principle in most religions is faith. Faith that regardless of the fact that there is no tangible proof of the existence of a god, one should still blindly believe it exists. So therefore, no amount of tangible evidence garnered by scientific research and experimentation will affect that core value of faith. When one believes in something that cannot be proven, proof would understandably bear no relevance in said matter.

I just think the argument of "Christians are still Christians so Atheists have failed" is one tat is flawed. Nonetheless, I'm amused and intrigued by this thread and I hope to see it continue at the rate that it has been.

Good luck and godspeed. c;

Blargh, *that is flawed.

How patronising can you be Catbus? Could you be more?

About your post Ironheart...

The point being made in the first paragraph is that regardless of the validity of religious beliefs, the world still exists. This overlooks the fact that religion is not a necessity; a world without it (or with a different form of it) could be a better place. Furthermore, the way religion is incorporated into society today will shape the future, so considering it as "out of our hands" seems pretty irresponsible to me. I'm not going to accept something just because I can't disprove it without a doubt.

The second paragraph as a whole seems like total BS to me. I'd like to see some studies showing how "believers" are healthier people. I don't think an hour of church on a Sunday is going to make or break my social life either.

Next, the writer calls atheists/agnostics a bunch of lazy pork-eating sluts while forgetting to mention anything about their beliefs, thinking, etc. I didn't wake up one day and think "I hate wasting my Sunday mornings in church. Hey, why don't I become an atheist." The whole point of a belief is that you believe it. If you choose a belief out of ease (being born into it?) you really can't say you believe it.

"There's nothing wrong with what we have right now." Are you kidding me? Their are plenty of problems caused by or associated with religion. I'm not going to commit to your belief system because it's supposedly a good thing according to you.

As an atheist, I don't mind religion at all. I do become irritated, however, when people try to turn religion into a fight, or a competition. Keep it to yourself, or discuss it academically and objectively, but please try to be logical and rational while doing so.

alright guys
i'll prove that god does not exist
but first
please prove to me that unicorns don't exist
:)
because i believe in unicorns, even though there's no evidence i believe in them and they really exist if you can't prove they don't.

:)

I haven't had time to reply to the first page , and now there are 6, o well I should get started. 1. thanks for asking Qi I am a Christian who dosen't regularly attend church. I don't think Christianity is becoming radicalized, but the attacks on it are getting more support and media coverage. Yes fundimentalists are going overboard by saying "beleive like I do or you will go to hell". Liberal athiests go too for when they say all fundimentalists are bigots. It is clear from reading these posts( a small microcausim of the world : most people don't listen to each other, they just react to buzzwords with memorized quotes they have not bothered to think through. 2. A good analogy : The USA government was started with lofty ideals:Justice and Freedom ; Just becuse corrupt humans use our government to commit atrocitys on our own people and the world does not diminish the ideals of justice and freedom. Christ gave us a mandate: Justice and Freedom (yes freedom, you have free will, you can say no to God) just because bad individuals use religion and the church to commit atrocitys does not diminish the original message of Jesus 3.Believing is good: Science has proven in the fields of Mental and Physical Health beleiveing in something is better than not beleiving Warlight Vet You could not beileve your aunt really cared about you. you did not hear what she said. 4.My belief in God affects every decision I make, some times with bad results. We all have a tendecy in Warlight to help the underdog when given a choice of two people who might win . In my life it is offten like this I give without expecting benifit, the benifit is in how it makes me feel. Which brings me to my last point for today. 5.We all need to trust our gut feelings and go with our intuition more often.sometimes that is all we have to go on. and it is correct more often than we realize , unless you practice then it gets better and better

It's good that atheists have their own religion. Christians believe in god and love Jesus. Atheists believe in the non-existence of gods and hate Christians. Maybe you guys can organize a church somewhere to talk about how god doesn't exist and how stupid Christians are. If you really get excited, talk about unicorns and purple dragons, because it seems you have a sacred book about animals from fairy tales that you must all read in order to better refute people whoqquestion your faith in nothingness.

Maybe you guys can organize a church somewhere to talk about how god doesn't exist and how stupid Christians are.

teehee...

Warlightvet, you believe in unicorns too? Glad i'm not the only one, they almost took me to a mental institute for that.

maybe I am just being paranoid: I beleive there is a battle between good and evil of biblical proportion in America today and it is not being covered by the media. My Christianity did help me to understand the ramifications, however it was my intrest in science which brought it to my attention. It is clear that the resources of America are being shipped offshore. It is clear we mistreat our soilders. We allow an american to be arrested, detained forever, tourted, his childred tourted(yes it is allowed, I looked it up). All of this was predicted in the novels 1984, and Brave New world. The authors of these books had inside info: they had friends in the elite. The elite have published thier plans because they are confident and arrogent, as well they should be.few are paying attention. Fewer still speak out. So You can all see Evil Exists what does this say or prove about Good?

I always thought atheists had interesting philosophical reasons and scientific arguments for why they are atheists. But, so far, all I've heard from them is:

- "We are more intelligent than Christians, therefore atheism."
- "Organized Christian religions have many problems, therefore atheism."
- "We are better at copying and pasting Google search quotes, therefore atheism."
- "We don't believe in unicorns and purple dragons, therefore atheism."
- "Ancient polytheists were wiser than contemporary theists, therefore atheism."

Again, where is the wisdom and science in atheism?