World Powers for today:
Im dividing this into two sections: military and economic.

Military:
1. US (do to having the most nukes)
2. China
3. Russia
4. Germany
5. UK/France/Turkey
6. India
7. Israel
8. Pakistan
9. North Korea/Egypt
(Egypt has one of the worlds largest armies; so does North Korea, despite their lack of funds)

Economic:
1. China
2. US (not for long though I think)
3. India
4. EU (not for long for them either)
5. Japan

1. US (do to having the most nukes)

First of all, Sardegnan basements. Second of all, Russia has the most nukes, even according to Western estimates.

http://pictorial-guide-to-energy.blogspot.com/2011/06/1000-billion-in-nuclear-weapons.html

Tsh, America having the most nukes...are you kidding me?

Tyrion Tyrion Tyrion... You know nothing Jon Snow...

Germany has almost no armies nowadays, and the EU (if we considered them as a whole nation) would be ranked 1st above the US in economy.

China

Superpowers of the past




You now see I was right about China it was not before the 19th century that China was downgraded from the 1st place.

It isn't just about the GDP. First off, there are different sources of income to just GDP- taxes which change acording to population mainly. Secondly, military is important when judging a countries strength. Sure, Spain might be the richest in the 1600 but without the military, other countries could just take them over (plus they had tonnes of inflation). Another thing is how developed the land is. Whether there are factories, decent living conditions, religious temples, courthouses, palaces etc... In 1820, China was allready falling behind in the agricultural revolution. But the main factor in this case was technology- China was behind in the 1500s. By the 1800s, they were so behind that the Europeans could just claim the entirety of China.

First off, there are different sources of income to just GDP- taxes which change acording to population mainly

mmh that GDP trend, this has been made by a serious economist which have done many researches, something I think you are not.

military is important when judging a countries strength. Sure, Spain might be the richest in the 1600 but without the military,

I agree with you military is important and China was far above Europe until the 18th century.
Btw it is true that China was not really improving in the 1800s, but not declining either, the Chinese empire was in his biggest expansion ever, gathering lands from east Kazakhstan, Mongolia, nowadays parts of east siberia, some islands which are currently Japanese, plus many vassal states such as Korea, Vietnam, Siam, Japan, etc.
China had also tributes from many countries under the Qing, most of Asia actually, even the Portuguese, the Dutch and later the British in the 18th century, the British paid tribute as late as 1886 and the Burmah convention, putting themselves in a lower status.

China was behind in the 1500s.

Again wrong, China in the 1500s was still more advanced than Europe in many fileds, some examples: I remind you that Gutenberg developped the printing press in the 15th century but it became really common in the 16th century, whereas in China block printing was already common in 1300 and invented in 1040, do not also forget the invention of paper already known in China one millenia before Europe... The gunpowder and modern artillery was developped first in China in the 7th century long before the European ever knew how to use an arquebus or cannons (in the 14th century). Other major inventions: the compass, chemical warfare, mathematics such as the negative numbers (not used in Europe before 1545 by Girolamo Cardano...).
Contrary to most of the European states (until the 18th century), China was a very efficient state, the government maintained a complex network of officials, and civil exams. Hence, the merit system existed millenias before than in Europe, and the Chinese were overally more literate than Europeans. These civil exams spread to British India in the 17th century and to Europe then. Not also forgetting other innovations in medicine, architecture, culture, philosophy, cuisine, etc etc.

Even in the 19th century when China was too weak to defend its borders against the Europeans, they could not entirely invade it, during the opium wars some cities (SHanghai, Hong Kong, Port Arthur, etc) were taken but not the country. It is not before the industrial revolution that China was clearly behind the Europeans.

I would say finally that what changed everything in the world balance of powers is the discovery of America by Europeans, if China discovered it (some scholars even say that China may have discovered the western coast of America in the 1400s during Zheng He big expeditions and explorations) and colonized it before, then it would have been still continiously the first world super power, but the Pacific Ocean is way more larger than the Atlantic one, and after Yongle the great Ming emperor, following emperors unfortunately closed China and stopped any further explorations (that's partly due to the fact that the ancient chinese believed that China was the center of the world, and surroundding regions were not interesting, underdeveloped and populated by uncivilized barbarians, which is not really untrue during that period if you just look at the Mongols, Turks etc). So the Europeans got lucky on that.

Edited 4/10/2015 10:26:35

Wait, was your graph serious, Angry Panda?

Hmm, nice source collecting.

Come on, anyone with any brain bit knows that this can't be verified or true. The bloke who made this graph is BS-ing you, hard.

Hmm, I wonder what that little bump in America is 1000-1500. And America skyrocketed since the first Spanish incursions (first money).

ome scholars even say that China may have discovered the western coast of America in the 1400s during Zheng He big expeditions and explorations

TSHHHHHHHHHHH

Edited 4/10/2015 10:53:40

This graph was made by Angus Maddison who was one of the most influential writers in the field of history and comparative analysis of economic growth. His databases are still used as they are the most important sources of analysis of long-term economic growth.
Of course this graph could not show precisely the GDP of superpowers of the past as it is an estimation, but it was a serious work, so you can consider it as a reliable graph, based on many datas (we know quite precisely how much inhabitants there were for at least 1500 years, there are also many economic and technological datas you can considerate based on historical records). Furthermore, I myself had some courses about Chinese history, geopolitics, economics and culture, so you can trust me for what I wrote earlier.

Edited 4/10/2015 11:07:06

some scholars even say that China may have discovered the western coast of America in the 1400s during Zheng He big expeditions and explorations



TSHHHHHHHHHHH

This is a really controversial theory promoted by Gavin Menzies in his book "1421: The Year China Discovered the World". The discovery of America I myself do not trust it, as it is classified as pseudo-history. But what we already know is China in this period with Zheng He admiral's fleet navigated in many areas as far as East Africa, with a massive fleet: 30000 men and a fleet of 62 treasure ships (gigantic ships of 130 metres long) supported by approximately 190 smaller ships, something European were not able to match until the 18th century.

Edited 4/10/2015 11:20:57

I for one cannot believe that the entire roman empire had less GDP than india

This graph was made by Angus Maddison who was one of the most influential writers in the field of history and comparative analysis of economic growth. His databases are still used as they are the most important sources of analysis of long-term economic growth.

I'd fire him for trying to do something impossible...and then trying to pass it off as absolutely true. We don't even really know the GDPs for today; let alone the past. We can estimate, but not really. Also, we don't even know how "precisely" many inhabitants we have today, let alone since 1500 years ago. It's only recently (early 1800s) that we can begin to estimate the Earth's population somewhat accurately by the milliards and only since the 1900s that we can estimate by the millions. At this day, maybe we can estimate to hundred thousand. But anything before 1800s is who knows how many folk?

Also, I agree with Thomas on this.

Edited 4/10/2015 11:50:46

Juq that's why I said it was an estimation... You cannot have the exact data, this graph was meant to give you an idea of world powers in the past according to nowadays's most used economic measure: the GDP. There were also some studies about historical demographics, and Angus Maddison was one of the most qualified in this field.

About the Roman Empire Thomas, it is not counted in this comparative graph because it is not a geographic area nor a state which still exist nowadays. However I can tell you that the Roman Empire was the equal of the old Chinese Empire, the Chinese refered the Roman Empire has 大秦 'Daqin' (which could be translated as the 'great empire', Qin pronounced almost like tsin, refering to the founding Qin dynasty of China were the western word 'china' itself comes from), Rome was treated as an equal of China, a perfect mirror of their Empire in term of culture, civilization and wealth.

Quote from Gan Ying about the Roman Empire (Chinese ambassador who tried to reach the Roman Empire in 97 CE)

Their kings are not permanent. They select and appoint the most worthy man. If there are unexpected calamities in the kingdom, such as frequent extraordinary winds or rains, he is unceremoniously rejected and replaced. The one who has been dismissed quietly accepts his demotion, and is not angry. The people of this country are all tall and honest. They resemble the people of the Middle Kingdom and that is why this kingdom is called Da Qin. This country produces plenty of gold [and] silver, [and of] rare and precious they have luminous jade, 'bright moon pearls,' Haiji rhinoceroses, coral, yellow amber, opaque glass, whitish chalcedony, red cinnabar, green gemstones, gold-thread embroideries, woven gold-threaded net, delicate polychrome silks painted with gold, and asbestos cloth.

They also have a fine cloth which some people say is made from the down of 'water sheep', but which is made, in fact, from the cocoons of wild silkworms. They blend all sorts of fragrances, and by boiling the juice, make a compound perfume. [They have] all the precious and rare things that come from the various foreign kingdoms. They make gold and silver coins. Ten silver coins are worth one gold coin. They trade with Anxi and Tianzhu by sea. The profit margin is ten to one. [...] The king of this country always wanted to send envoys to the Han, but Anxi, wishing to control the trade in multi-coloured Chinese silks, blocked the route to prevent [the Romans] getting through [to China]

Kyrgyzstan

In all seriousness, though. Here's my stance, throughout history. I'll go several thousand years back, from what most people have currently been using.

3000 BC: Egypt. (Sumer is a close runner up).
2300 BC: The Akkadian Empire.
2000 BC: Neo-Sumer (The Minoan Civilisation is not far behind).
1500 BC: Egypt.
1000 BC: Either Babylon, or Western Zhou.
700 BC: Assyrian Empire.
600 BC: Close, between Babylonian Empire, or the Median Empire.
500 BC: Achaemenid Persia.
400 BC: Nanda Dynasty (India)
323 BC: (I can't leave this out) Alexander the Great's Macedonia was a powerhouse at this point.
300 BC: Maurya Dynasty (India)
200 BC: Han Dynasty (China)
100 BC: Roman Republic
1 AD: Han Dynasty
100 AD: Roman Empire
200 AD: Han Dynasty (Roman Empire and Parthian Persia are not far behind)
300 AD: Roman Empire
400 AD: Sassanid Persia
500 AD: Byzantine Empire
600 AD: Sui Dynasty (China)
700 AD: Umayyad Caliphate
800 AD: Abbasid Caliphate (Byzantium and the Frankish Empire are also strong)
900 AD: Tang Dynasty (China) (Kievan Rus' and Byzantium are in good shape as well)
1000 AD: Song Dynasty (China) (Ghaznavid Persia is a close second)
1080 AD: (Didn't want to skip it) The Great Seljuq Empire is the strongest now.
1100 AD: Song Dynasty
1200 AD: The Holy Roman Empire
1250 AD: The Mongol Empire
1300 AD: Yuan Dynasty (Mongol China) (The Golden Horde is also strong right now)
1400 AD: Ming Dynasty (China) (Very close, at this point. The Ottomans are becoming stronger, the Timurids are powerful, and the Holy Roman Empire are still strong).
1500 AD: Spain (Portugal, Ottomans, and Ming are also very powerful).
1550 AD: The Ottoman Empire (Spain, Portugal, and Ming are close behind).
1600 AD: The Iberian Union (Poland-Lithuania, Ming and Ottomans are also strong).
1650 AD: Spain / Portugal -Tie- (Sweden, Ottomans, and France are strong as well).
1700 AD: France (Ottomans, Qing, and the Mughal Empire are not far behind France, though).
1750 AD: France (British Empire, Qing, and Austria are good contenders though).
1800 AD: British Empire (France, Russia, Qing, and Austria are in good shape, though).
1850 AD: British Empire (Russia, Austria, and France all had good power as well).
1900 AD: British Empire (Germany, Russia, Austria-Hungary, and France were very strong as well).
1939-1945: This Period saw very many strong powers collide, including the British Empire, The Japanese Empire, USSR, USA, and Nazi Germany being the strongest powers in the process).
1950: USA (USSR and UK are strong as well)
2000: USA
2015: USA (China is beginning to catch up)
2100: KYRGYZSTAN WILL BECOME A HYPER POWER BY THEN. NO ONE WILL COMPARE.

Juq that's why I said it was an estimation... You cannot have the exact data, this graph was meant to give you an idea of world powers in the past according to nowadays's most used economic measure: the GDP. There were also some studies about historical demographics, and Angus Maddison was one of the most qualified in this field.

I estimate that you're a hundred years old. Give or take 200. Wait, are you ageless?

Also, what is West Europe even based on if not the Roman Empire? Some cultures in Greece or something?

R stands for right, W stands for wrong.

3000 BC: Egypt. (Sumer is a close runner up). R
2300 BC: The Akkadian Empire. R
2000 BC: Neo-Sumer (The Minoan Civilisation is not far behind). W
1500 BC: Egypt. R
1000 BC: Either Babylon, or Western Zhou. R
700 BC: Assyrian Empire. R
600 BC: Close, between Babylonian Empire, or the Median Empire. R
500 BC: Achaemenid Persia. R
400 BC: Nanda Dynasty (India) W
323 BC: (I can't leave this out) Alexander the Great's Macedonia was a powerhouse at this point. R
300 BC: Maurya Dynasty (India) W
200 BC: Han Dynasty (China) R
100 BC: Roman Republic W
1 AD: Han Dynasty R
100 AD: Roman Empire R
200 AD: Han Dynasty (Roman Empire and Parthian Persia are not far behind) R
300 AD: Roman Empire W
400 AD: Sassanid Persia R
500 AD: Byzantine Empire W
600 AD: Sui Dynasty (China) R
700 AD: Umayyad Caliphate R
800 AD: Abbasid Caliphate (Byzantium and the Frankish Empire are also strong) R
900 AD: Tang Dynasty (China) (Kievan Rus' and Byzantium are in good shape as well) R
1000 AD: Song Dynasty (China) (Ghaznavid Persia is a close second) R
1080 AD: (Didn't want to skip it) The Great Seljuq Empire is the strongest now. R
1100 AD: Song Dynasty R
1200 AD: The Holy Roman Empire R
1250 AD: The Mongol Empire R
1300 AD: Yuan Dynasty (Mongol China) (The Golden Horde is also strong right now) R
1400 AD: Ming Dynasty (China) (Very close, at this point. The Ottomans are becoming stronger, the Timurids are powerful, and the Holy Roman Empire are still strong). R
1500 AD: Spain (Portugal, Ottomans, and Ming are also very powerful). R
1550 AD: The Ottoman Empire (Spain, Portugal, and Ming are close behind). W
1600 AD: The Iberian Union (Poland-Lithuania, Ming and Ottomans are also strong). R
1650 AD: Spain / Portugal -Tie- (Sweden, Ottomans, and France are strong as well). W
1700 AD: France (Ottomans, Qing, and the Mughal Empire are not far behind France, though). W
1750 AD: France (British Empire, Qing, and Austria are good contenders though). W
1800 AD: British Empire (France, Russia, Qing, and Austria are in good shape, though). R
1850 AD: British Empire (Russia, Austria, and France all had good power as well). R
1900 AD: British Empire (Germany, Russia, Austria-Hungary, and France were very strong as well). R
1939-1945: This Period saw very many strong powers collide, including the British Empire, The Japanese Empire, USSR, USA, and Nazi Germany being the strongest powers in the process). R
1950: USA (USSR and UK are strong as well) W
2000: USA R
2015: USA (China is beginning to catch up) W
2100: KYRGYZSTAN WILL BECOME A HYPER POWER BY THEN. NO ONE WILL COMPARE. RRRRR

First of all, the Chinese economy won't catch up with that of the U.S. It is slowing down
Second, the U.S. also has the most advanced and logistically handled military in the world
Third, Western Europe is based off the Germanic civilization, not the Romans

Rome became a power house at 264 when it controlled the italian penesulia. Was a power house until 340ish.

Byzantines were a power house until they lost Egypt. I forget when that happened.

1. USA (Top Military and Economic Power)
2. China (Close on Economic and Military)
3. Russia (They have the most nukes but their Military is degrading plus their Economy is fucking up due to sanctions)
4. Germany (They have a good economy but their Military is not very well maintained)
5. India (cause why not)
6. UK (yeah)
7. France (yeah)
8. Nordic Countries (They have a really fucking good economy)
9. Japan (really great economy, if their military budget increases then they could have one of the most powerful militaries in the world)
10. PC (Our glorious Master Race)