> 2016
> not privately policing your own streets and shooting up any Muslims

what happened to you, Murica?

Who said the militia would be police? They're just civilians who train once a month and have guns in some building , and only act when a war starts against the US. I'm honestly surprised I haven't gotten any flak from republicans, they should be especially mad that this would call for the military getting less funding.

Yep, because you can totally constrain militias that way.

The reason that people tolerate the risk/loss of liberty that comes with states is because they protect us from the worse alternative- losing our liberty to our fellow citizens.

Yeah national guard is a very useful organization across America. Honestly it should have lots more members there are so many benefits.

What loss of liberties to the militias? They can't just go out and start taking parts of the country. Do you expect a bunch of militias to organize into a single army then attack the US? The army isn't non-existent just smaller. And the militias don't have a Air Force.

And the National Guard is apart of the army Genghis. Though sarcasm is half of your personality so I'll let it pass.

^^ National Guard is pretty sweet, although it's basically an extension of the military come wartime

^ There's a very fine line between a militia and a terrorist organization; it doesn't matter if they're a single army if they attract ideologically motivated individuals (like the Oathkeepers do) who're likely to impose their own vision of which laws matter and which don't; the government is a lot easier to deal with (and I honestly don't buy into the paranoia about the military suddenly taking over- yes, they have a large amount of power, but there's a very functional system of checks and balances + power splits that keeps them in check anyway) through legal, well-established means. Bureaucracies are not the most common source of nightmares.

These militias would not be able to effectively combat the military traditionally and if some radicals wanted to fight a guerrilla war against the US, they could already.

And again, the reduced coup chance thing is just a minor side benefit.

I'm not worried for the military. I'm worried for myself. The police isn't the group threatening to shoot me because I disagree with its views on abortion.

The police isn't the group threatening to shoot me because I disagree with its views on abortion.

That seemed random?! It seems your presupposing any militia would be made up of social conservatives?? You know you would have an equal right to join a militia Knyte as anyone else...its not like a militia would discriminate on ideological, racial, or ethnic lines. That's like saying I would fear getting shot up by a left-wing militia group because I disagree with its views on affirmative action. The militia was the main form of military protection in this country for more than 150 years (about)

Edited 1/6/2016 13:33:31

I think he was just using it as an example, Jai.

I think knyte's just pointing out that private individuals express their social ideologies more frequently than police (which is a good thing). It's also blatantly true that most anti-abortion people in the US are also pro-gun, and vice versa. Thus, your average citizen is more likely to threaten you on ideological grounds than the police, and an average gun enthusiast would be more likely to have a socially conservative ideology. A liberal would perhaps threaten you in other ways.

The Police are the one's I'd worried be about. They're the ones killing more than a thousand a year. And the militia members could already seek you out and try to kill you. Nothing has changed in their ability to.

Edited 1/6/2016 15:41:22

And the militia members could already seek you out and try to kill you. Nothing has changed in their ability to.

This. A non-sanctioned militia is just as capable of organizing and arming itself as a sanctioned one would be. If they were going to drag Knyte out of his house and murder him for being pro-choice they easily could have done it by now. (I find that example to be a bit strange by the way. I've never heard of a militia going around town and asking people what their political views on abortion are)

I find that example to be a bit strange by the way. I've never heard of a militia going around town and asking people what their political views on abortion are

This point is too narrow. I've never heard of a militia going around town and asking people what their political views on culture war issues are. Period.

It's also blatantly true that most anti-abortion people in the US are also pro-gun

Conceptually and theoretically this may be true. And you may even be right...but I don't know how much actual hard-evidence research there is on this. I also don't find the line of argument used by statists to be all that surprising - we trust state institutions (e.g. police, US military, federal government) because they are inherently created and run by the state. This misses the entire point of US political development leading up to the formation of the US constitution: extreme (and I mean Oregon ranchers seizing Federal buildings extreme) distrust, wariness, and skepticism of the merits, accountability, and altruism of any state institution. We've become completely complacent...almost ingratiating servants...to state institutions. And that is why the philosophy of a militia is so vitally important to the foundation and preservation of our country.

Edited 1/6/2016 18:38:15

Most cases involving gun deaths are self; defense. Guns prevent more deaths than otherwise, with many gun owners having neutralized a situation with the threat of gunpowder but never actually shooting.
Criminals will always find a way to get the guns.

There's really not much else to say.

TIL laws have no effect because people do illegal things anyway

Switzerland has a very good working militia system.

TIL laws have no effect because people do illegal things anyway

Please show us evidence how militias would suddenly become more dangerous if they were openly accepted by the government.

Also, I could be wrong, but I don't think militias are illegal in any state. I'm sure the FBI/CIA/NSA watch them like hawks, but there's nothing explicitly criminal about forming a militia as long as you don't break any laws.

Private armies aren't legal but militias are. Oathkeepers are an example. Explicitly protected by the second amendment, but not enshrined as a part of the US defense policy in any meaningful way. Also defined a bit ambiguously (could arguably be referring to National Guard, although SCOTUS interpretation doesn't say so)